News Is Anyone Truly in Control Amidst the Ukrainian Crisis?

[jim hardy]

There's nothing wrong with differing political views being embodied or expressed in the editorial policy of a newspaper or magazine.

Quite so. That's why they have an "editorial" page where they make their position clear, and hopefully publish thoughtful "letters to the editor" from a variety of folks who agree and disagree with them.

But i am put off by it in the everyday coverage of events. It's manipulation. Orwell pegged it in Animal Farm with character "Squealer".

I believe Journalism ought to lift people, not herd them. Else it's reduced to propaganda

 

[SteamKing]

I believe Journalism ought to lift people, not herd them. Else it's reduced to propaganda

It's not clear what you mean by 'lift' in this context.

 

[DennisN]

Another RT (Russia Today) anchor, Liz Wahl, has resigned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55izx6rbCqg

 

[DennisN]

I've read some news on this "sniper controversy". This seems to be the origin (or at least, part of it):

Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev snipers
Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet tells EU's Cathy Ashton about claim that provocateurs were behind Maidan killings (The Guardian)

"During the conversation, Paet quoted a woman named Olga – who the Russian media identified her as Olga Bogomolets, a doctor – blaming snipers from the opposition shooting the protesters."

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-[/PLAIN]
urmas-paet

Yet the Daily Telegraph seems to have double-checked with Olga Bogomolets:

Ukraine crisis: March 5 as it happened (Daily Telegraph)

15.17 Our correspondent, Damien McElroy, has spoken to the doctor at the centre of the claims that snipers that shot people in Kiev were hired by Maidan leaders:

Olga Bogomolets said she had not told Mr Paet that policemen and protesters had been killed in the same manner.

"Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people," she told The Telegraph. "I have no access to those people."

But she said she had asked for a full forensic criminal investigation into the deaths that occurred in the Maidan. "No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons. I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything.

"I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms.

"Our nation has to ask the question who were the killers, who asked them to come to Ukraine. We need good answers on the basis of expertise."

Mr Paet's assertion that an opposition figure was behind the Maidan massacre was not one she could share.

"I think you can only say something like this on the basis of fact," she said. "Its not correct and its not good to do this. It should be based on fact."

She said the new government in Kiev had assured her a criminal investigation had begun but that she had not direct contact with it so far.

"They told me they have begun a criminal process and if they say that I believe them. The police have not given me any information on it."

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10677370/Ukraine-Russia-crisis-live.html (about 1/3 down on that page at 15.17)

 

[voko]

Ukraine crisis: Crimea MPs vote to join Russia

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26465962

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Another RT (Russia Today) anchor, Liz Wahl, has resigned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55izx6rbCqg

Wow! She did it LIVE! :thumbs::!):thumbs:

I'm truly amazed by these very brave and intelligent women who have twice as many and twice as big cojones as any gray 17th century bear hunting he-man!

Maybe it's finally time to let the girls take over the business and run this giant ship into safe harbor??

It's obviously too much to handle for older gray men...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Residents of Odessa at the rally against the intervention of Russia in Ukraine February 3, 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB6jMxhtWpA
http://www.youtube.com/embed/nB6jMxhtWpA
(Sign at the end: Одесса = Украина --> Odessa = Ukraine)

And today (according to CNN International) there are violent pro-Russian rallies in Odessa.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440517

The future of a western Ukraine without access to the Black Sea would be bleak indeed.

 

[voko]

these very brave

Very brave? The thing she was looking at was a camera, not a machine gun.

 

[OmCheeto]

Very brave? The thing she was looking at was a camera, not a machine gun.

I would be more worried about the sniper rifle if I were her.

My Russian acquaintances have told me, going forward, not to repeat anything they say regarding the Ukraine.

One of them received a threatening, anonymous email the day after I mentioned Stepan Bandera, telling him to basically; "Shut up". Even though he claims to have never printed anything on the internet regarding the current Ukrainian situation.

This kind of made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

I once jokingly said to a Russian, who was giving me grief, about 25 years ago:

я знаю, где вы живете. я знаю, где вы работаете. и я знаю, где ваши дети. = I know where you live. I know where you work. And I know where your children are.

It was a threat, based upon my perception of what Russia was like, many years ago.

The young Russian man, gave me no more grief.

In other news:

Lawmakers in the Crimea region voted earlier in favor of leaving Ukraine for Russia, which already has the Black Sea peninsula under de facto control, and set a referendum on the move for 10 days' time.

(ref)

 

[OmCheeto]

Ukraine crisis: Crimea MPs vote to join Russia

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26465962

Ooops.

 

[voko]

I would be more worried about the sniper rifle if I were her.

In Washington DC, whence she aired her resignation? Are the black helicopters already up?

 

[lisab]

I would be more worried about the sniper rifle if I were her.

My Russian acquaintances have told me, going forward, not to repeat anything they say regarding the Ukraine.

One of them received a threatening, anonymous email the day after I mentioned Stepan Bandera, telling him to basically; "Shut up". Even though he claims to have never printed anything on the internet regarding the current Ukrainian situation.

This kind of made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

I once jokingly said to a Russian, who was giving me grief, about 25 years ago:

я знаю, где вы живете. я знаю, где вы работаете. и я знаю, где ваши дети. = I know where you live. I know where you work. And I know where your children are.

It was a threat, based upon my perception of what Russia was like, many years ago.

The young Russian man, gave me no more grief.

"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

--Faulkner

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Very brave? The thing she was looking at was a camera, not a machine gun.

Maybe your imagination is a little bit 'limited'... because this camera was connected to 22 satellites and 230 operators, which allows some 644 million people to watch the channel in more than 100 countries, and one of the viewers is Vladimir Putin.

So, when did you last quit your job in front of 644 million people, upsetting a boss with nuclear weapons?


P.S: Liz Wahl was interviewed on CNN today and said "I haven't gotten any threats, yet...", half her family is still in Hungary (you know the country west of Ukraine), I leave the rest to your perhaps improved imagination. OmCheeto has without doubt got it right...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

OMG is Sarah Palin the best Russian expert Fox could come up with? Can she still see Russia from her back porch?

Yup, and not only that – she can see Ukraine from her back porch, four years into the future!

 

[mheslep]

Very brave? The thing she was looking at was a camera, not a machine gun.

Journalists/media-people in Russia 1993-2013:
Homicides, 184, about 100 of those since Lieutenant Colonel Putin became "Acting President" in 2000 ;
Missing 14;
"Not confirmed", 30.

Of course if the RT Anchor falls and stabs herself while running with scissors (or swallows Polonium) that's her own fault.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Personally I'm turned off by all the news sources.
I got to like Fox during the Bush years because they seemed most respectful of the President, which i think we all should be. And i detested the HuffPost and its ilk(including NPR) for the horrible disrespect they heaped on him.
Well, come 2009 and the roles reversed , so I'm no longer a fan of Fox either . They heap it onto Obama just like the left did to Bush.

That's an interesting perspective. In Europe, I guess this kind of 'reverence' for political leaders are maybe not that common (but from your perspective we're just a bunch of "semi-communist revolutionaries" anyhow... ). Personally, I think that 'reverence' for officials is not something that comes by default, but by action and character.

They've all got their agendas. At least RT's is clear.

Yes, maybe the best thing to do is to watch as many as you can, well aware of current agenda, and then make your own conclusions. If CNN, BBC, France24, EuroNews, Reuters, Al Jazeera, etc, are all saying the same thing – it is probably true. If RT is also saying the same thing – it is most probably not false.

However - Methinks Abby Martin doth protest too much.

What do you mean? It's wrong to protest against Putin's illegal intervention??

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Journalists/media-people in Russia 1993-2013:
Homicides, 184, about 100 of those since Lieutenant Colonel Putin became "Acting President" in 2000 ;
Missing 14;
"Not confirmed", 30.

Of course if the RT Anchor falls and stabs herself while running with scissors (or swallows Polonium) that's her own fault.

True!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I believe Journalism ought to lift people, not herd them. Else it's reduced to propaganda

:thumbs:

 

[DevilsAvocado]

wow...

Yeah, the "nuke thing" is unbelievable... makes me sick...


P.S: Are you still out of TV/news channels? (or was it lisab?)

If you are; there's a sweet solution to get a chunk of international news channels on your computer/gadget for free (and legal). Check out XBMC (for multiple OS/hardware), all you need is a decent connection.

Install it from xbmc.org and go to Videos -> Add-ons -> World News Live. There you have Al Jazeera, BBC World News, CNN International, CSPAN, EuroNews, France24, Reuters, RT, Sky News, etc, etc (note that some channels could be 'overcrowded' now and then, just keep on clicking).

If you want more, there are tons of add-ons here: http://addons.xbmc.org/category/video/

Handy unless this mess ends already...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

What Sen. Obama did or did not do in the summer of 2008 is irrelevant.

Maybe you are missing the crucial part – Fox & Palin are trying to fake it (as usual), to make it look like it was Obama's responsibility and that Palin talked about this back in 2008 and then warned for that Russia was to invade Ukraine next, which is somewhere between a terrible bad lie and hilarious joke.

Palin raises a valid point about the energy pipelines traveling west from Russia thru the Ukraine to Europe.

And the "solution" Palin provides is fracking in Alaska? Maybe you could help me out here – is Palin planning to build a pipeline between Alaska and Germany?? Or does she want to go to war to cut the pipeline(s) between Russia and Germany, or what??

To be sure, Palin is not the only one who is making these points.

Really? Could you please provide the name of any other professional political analyst who back in 2008 knew that Russia was to invade Ukraine next, and who claims that the solution to all this is fracking in Alaska? And not wear 'Mom Jeans'??

 

[Dotini]

Here are some realistic ideas from Henry Kissinger on how this confrontation ends.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html
Public discussion on Ukraine is all about confrontation. But do we know where we are going? In my life, I have seen four wars begun with great enthusiasm and public support, all of which we did not know how to end and from three of which we withdrew unilaterally. The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins.

 

[SteamKing]

And the "solution" Palin provides is fracking in Alaska? Maybe you could help me out here – is Palin planning to build a pipeline between Alaska and Germany?? Or does she want to go to war to cut the pipeline(s) between Russia and Germany, or what??

Palin is not advocating that anyone go to war. However, the Europeans are (mostly) rational people and they see stormy sailing ahead w.r.t. their energy supplies coming out of Russia, so they are making plans for alternate supplies of energy, particularly natural gas:

http://gcaptain.com/hoegh-lng-floating-regas-terminal-demand-ukraine-crisis/

Don't be silly, you can't see Germany from Alaska, so a pipeline between the two would be wildly impractical.

 

[SteamKing]

It looks like back to the Black Sea for the USN:

http://gcaptain.com/us-navy-destroyer-truxtun-departs-for-the-black-sea/

And just when you thought things might settle down a bit, someone starts a blockade:

http://gcaptain.com/russian-warship-sunk-crimea/

 

[voko]

President Putin's Fiction: 10 False Claims About Ukraine

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/03/222988.htm

 

[jim hardy]

Great link you posted there , Dotini.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

For the West, the demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.

Putin should come to realize that, whatever his grievances, a policy of military impositions would produce another Cold War. For its part, the United States needs to avoid treating Russia as an aberrant to be patiently taught rules of conduct established by Washington. Putin is a serious strategist — on the premises of Russian history. Understanding U.S. values and psychology are not his strong suits. Nor has understanding Russian history and psychology been a strong point of U.S. policymakers.

Leaders of all sides should return to examining outcomes, not compete in posturing. Here is my notion of an outcome compatible with the values and security interests of all sides:

1. Ukraine should have the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with Europe.

2. Ukraine should not join NATO, a position I took seven years ago, when it last came up.

3. Ukraine should be free to create any government compatible with the expressed will of its people. Wise Ukrainian leaders would then opt for a policy of reconciliation between the various parts of their country. Internationally, they should pursue a posture comparable to that of Finland. That nation leaves no doubt about its fierce independence and cooperates with the West in most fields but carefully avoids institutional hostility toward Russia.

4. It is incompatible with the rules of the existing world order for Russia to annex Crimea. But it should be possible to put Crimea’s relationship to Ukraine on a less fraught basis. To that end, Russia would recognize Ukraine’s sovereignty over Crimea. Ukraine should reinforce Crimea’s autonomy in elections held in the presence of international observers. The process would include removing any ambiguities about the status of the Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol.

Crimea is a strategic piece to both sides , as in Brzezinski's "Grand Chessboard" .
But you don't blow up the whole game over a rook.

 

[SteamKing]

Really? Could you please provide the name of any other professional political analyst who back in 2008 knew that Russia was to invade Ukraine next, and who claims that the solution to all this is fracking in Alaska? And not wear 'Mom Jeans'??

No one said that in 2008 and no one is saying that now.

When NATO held a summit at Bucharest in April 2008, both the Ukraine and Georgia requested to be offered a Membership Action Plan to join the organization. The summit adjourned without offering such a plan to these two countries, instead promising to revisit the decision in December 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit

Putin made his move on Georgia in June, knowing that the UK, Germany and France opposed giving membership to Georgia and the Ukraine at the summit. Putin wanted things taken care of in Georgia quickly since the 2014 Olympics were scheduled to take place in nearby Sochi, and Russia was investing a staggering amount of money (over $50 billion and counting) to hold these games.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Ukraine would then receive all sorts of attention from Russia, not the least because of access to the Black Sea for merchant and naval ships. Adding several hundred miles of territory to Russia's western border is an added bonus.

Given Obama's actions while president, pulling out of Afghanistan and Iraq, secretly negotiating with Iran, fumbling round with Egypt and Libya, and totally humiliated in handling Syria, Putin knew that he could expect no serious or credible threats from the US or NATO or Europe w.r.t. his actions in the Ukraine.

But Putin's actions are not without risks. Russia can't withstand the loss of revenue derived from energy sales to the west for very long if the pipelines running thru the Ukraine are damaged or destroyed. It's also not clear if the average Russian is eager to go to war over the Ukraine, given the experiences in Afghanistan in the 1980s and Chechnya more recently. Having been around for the fall of the USSR, Putin knows that things can go wrong quite quickly politically if circumstances align.

If Russia's energy customers are forced to go elsewhere to obtain their supplies, it might not be very easy to persuade them to come back after things have settled down. Russia is also dependent on the west for capital and technology to exploit its existing oil and gas deposits and to explore for more deposits.

 

[voko]

But Putin's actions are not without risks. Russia can't withstand the loss of revenue derived from energy sales to the west for very long if the pipelines running thru the Ukraine are damaged or destroyed.

That is true, but. No one except perhaps the USA would want to fiddle with the pipelines. It is certainly not in the interest of Ukraine nor of the EU. And it will take a serious effort to damage the pipelines severely in any large extent, so the stakeholders will have ample time to avert or minimise the damage.

 

[voko]

EU approves EUR 11 billion package for Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/BarrosoEU/status/441624936407642112

 

[jim hardy]

Yes, maybe the best thing to do is to watch as many as you can, well aware of current agenda, and then make your own conclusions.

I try to do that, everything from Amy Goodman to Sean Hannity( i find him hard to take).
I subscribed to Atlantic Monthly and Foreign Affairs for a few years in an attempt to raise my awareness . That cerebral style of writing puts one to sleep, but also makes one more immune to the hype of the mainstream. Mainstream wants to titillate and sway rather than promote one's thinking.

I gave up the magazine subscriptions a few years ago. Too much paper to dispose of.
But while i was active , believe it or not i found the best source for what's going on in the world to be Soldier of Fortune magazine. They were a bit visceral , but they gave good heads-up for things to investigate further at think-tank websites like CSIS and CFR; and usually a full year ahead of the networks.
It worked for me, your mileage might vary.

old jim