Is black hole a racially insensitive term?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether the term "black hole" is racially insensitive, sparked by a recent incident involving a comment made by a county commissioner. Participants explore the implications of language in scientific terminology and its potential interpretations in social contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the term "black hole" can be considered racially insensitive, citing a specific incident where a commissioner was challenged on his use of the term.
  • Others argue that the term is a scientific one with no inherent negative connotation, suggesting that context matters significantly in determining offensiveness.
  • A few participants propose that bureaucracies often resemble "white holes," indicating a humorous take on the original comment about lost paperwork.
  • There are discussions about other scientific terms like "black body radiation" and "brown dwarfs," with some participants questioning if these terms could also be seen as racially charged.
  • One participant mentions that any word can be turned offensive depending on context and intent, highlighting the fluidity of language and interpretation.
  • Several comments reflect on the historical and cultural evolution of certain words, suggesting that some terms may lose their original meanings or become problematic over time.
  • There are also references to other instances of language sensitivity in different contexts, such as the banning of terms like "master/slave" in technology discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether "black hole" is racially insensitive. Multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of language and context in scientific terminology.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of language interpretation, particularly in the intersection of science and social sensitivity. There are unresolved assumptions about the intent behind language use and the evolving nature of terms in public discourse.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring the relationship between language, race, and science, as well as individuals engaged in debates about terminology in academic and public contexts.

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Is "black hole" a racially insensitive term?

http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2008/07/is_black_hole_a.html

July 09, 2008

Is "black hole" a racially insensitive term?

Apparently to some. From the City Hall Blog at the Dallas Morning News:

A special meeting about Dallas County traffic tickets turned tense and bizarre this afternoon.

County commissioners were discussing problems with the central collections office that is used to process traffic ticket payments and handle other paperwork normally done by the JP Courts.

Commissioner Kenneth Mayfield, who is white, said it seemed that central collections "has become a black hole" because paperwork reportedly has become lost in the office.

Commissioner John Wiley Price, who is black, interrupted him with a loud "Excuse me!" He then corrected his colleague, saying the office has become a "white hole."

That prompted Judge Thomas Jones, who is black, to demand an apology from Mayfield for his racially insensitive analogy.

Mayfield shot back that it was a figure of speech and a science term.

Judge Jones should be very glad that the central collections office has not become a white hole, a theoretical object that ejects matter from beyond its event horizon, rather than sucking it in. It wouldn't be fun for Dallas to find itself so near a quasar.

Anyone wanting to know a good deal about black holes should read the excellent new book, The Black Hole War, by Leonard Susskind, which has just been released. I'm in the middle of it, and the book's a fascinating tour of modern physics written for the layman. It's just been marvelous so far.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org


What is the world coming to?
 


I don't understand this:
Commissioner John Wiley Price, who is black, interrupted him with a loud "Excuse me!" He then corrected his colleague, saying the office has become a "white hole."
What does he think he is correcting? What is he correcting it too?
 


cristo said:
What is the world coming to?

X hole?(black, white or any other color that doesn't sound racist)
 


Actually, to me, most bureaucracies DO seem to be white holes, by spewing forth lots of documents scrambled into a totally incomprehensible form..
 


If he was calling a black hole a black hole, it would not be racially insensitive. Indeed there is no negative connotation to black holes that I am aware of. However, if he was calling an office that had black office workers a black hole, that would be different.
 


Calling an office filled with black workers "a black hole" as long as the word "black" refers to the loss of information there, rather than the workers' skin colour, is not wrong at all.
 


That's in a way close to the story I heard about a politician visiting sewage treatment facility. Person showing the facility told the politician that they are able to get pH of the leaving water down to 7. "Why don't you get it down to zero?" was the answer.

It is also not far from the Aliso Viejo case, where city came close to banning styrofoam cups because dihydrogen monoxide was used in their production.

Stupidity and lack of knowledge are eternal. Racial connotations are new.

Is the term "black body radiation" racist as well?
 


Or brown dwarfs??
 
  • #10


arildno said:
Or brown dwarfs??
You can be banned for saying things like that. :bugeye:
 
  • #11


Borek said:
Is the term "black body radiation" racist as well?

That would be related to the attractive force referred to in "Black is beautiful"??
 
  • #12


It is all in the context and intent. Any ordinary, harmless word or phrases can easily be turned into something offensive given the "right" context and intent.

There are many words in science that could be taken as "offensive" if it weren't for the fact that no derogatory intent was meant. Someone could easily be offended by the acronym http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/29119" , a perfectly respectable experimental technique/facility. Luckily, no one is complaining so far.

Zz.
 
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  • #13


LA School District tried to ban the purchase of computers that used the term Master/Slave for racial insensitivity, so I have heard.
 
  • #14


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly
Almost the entire wiki article on the word 'niggardly' is about the various contraversies surrounding its use.
There is also a book I was thinking about picking up called 'The Human Stain' part of which revolves around a teacher who gets fired for referring to two black students who never showed up to class as 'spooks' unaware that it has been used as a racial slur.
 
  • #15


Later in the meeting, Commissioner Kenneth Mayfield found out that a box in Commissioner John Wiley Price's office contained much of the lost paperwork that was part of the processing route, to which Mayfield said, "We found the missing link in Price's office."----which Mayfield had to apologize for, also.
 
  • #16


I should say I am amazed. There is no observational difference between a black hole and a white hole. They are indistinguishable, as far as I can gather from Hawking's original papers on the subject. So we have ultimate democratic principle. :rolleyes: What does Susskind's book say about that ? Is there a way to distinguish between black and white holes nowadays ?
 
  • #17


arildno said:
Or brown dwarfs??

hahah that's the most racist comment yet, it should be poop colored midgets to be politically correct hahaha
 
  • #18


OK---Let's summarize all of this on a black board----
 
  • #19


rewebster said:
OK---Let's summarize all of this on a black board----

That is VERY insulting to call a small-titted Negresse.

It isn't her fault, neither her skin colour, or the size of her breasts.

Besides, there is this sexist innuendo here, of YOU being the active one, doing something ON, or to, a woman. You have objectified her!

What a reprehensible individual you are, you wielder of a tiny piece of white chalk..
 
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  • #20


ahhhh...shooot...those small bumps on the black board make my chalk jump
 
  • #21


rewebster said:
OK---Let's summarize all of this on a black board----

arildno said:
That is VERY insulting to call a small-titted Negresse.

It isn't her fault, neither her skin colour, or the size of her breasts.

Besides, there is this sexist innuendo here, of YOU being the active one, doing something ON, or to, a woman. You have objectified her!

What a reprehensible individual you are, you wielder of a tiny piece of white chalk..

rewebster said:
ahhhh...shooot...those small bumps on the black board make my chalk jump

Wow, you really can turn anything into a slur...
 
  • #22


I used the word "niggardly" in an oral presentation in high school once, and several people were "aghast." And that was an International Baccalaureate class. I wonder how use of the word would have been perceived in a regular class in the inner-city?
 
  • #23


Well, some words, on no fault on their own, just lose their original standing.

Persons today might be in a "festive mood", "merry mood", but rarely, any longer in a "g.. mood".

"Niggardly" is similarly doomed, I think.
 
  • #24


what about that country in Africa?
 
  • #25


rewebster said:
what about that country in Africa?

Nijur, you mean?
 
  • #26


What about the Latin word for black, niger, which I believe is pronounced "nig-air"?

It is absolutely silly for people to take offense at words themselves. In fact, there is nothing racist about using a racial or ethnic slur. It all depends on the context of how it is used.

Attacking someone based on their race or ethnicity without using any kind of racial or ethnic slur is no better than attacking them based on their race or ethnicity while using a racial or ethnic slur.
 
  • #27


arildno said:
Nijur, you mean?

"Dravidian etymology :
New query


Proto-Dravidian : *nijur

Meaning : 1 to burn, blaze 2 coal

Proto-South Dravidian: *ner-

Proto-Telugu : *nipp-

Proto-Kolami-Gadba : *nir-

Proto-Gondi-Kui : *nire-

Proto-North Dravidian : *nijur

Notes : The Kurukh form is the most archaic here, representing the root in its pre-contracted form. Gondwan *nirve-, as I strongly suspect, is a compound: *nir- + *vŒ- 'to burn'."

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7eC6p3hWT-8J:ehl.santafe.edu/cgi-bin/etymology.cgi%3Fsingle%3D1%26basename%3D/data/drav/gndet%26text_number%3D%2B117%26root%3Dconfig+Nijur&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us


I wonder if the Proto-Telugu developed into anything?



-------------

If anyone wants to look up some word etymologies:

http://ehl.santafe.edu/cgi-bin/main.cgi?root=config
 
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  • #28


Probably into Telugu. :smile:
 
  • #29


arildno said:
Persons today might be in a "festive mood", "merry mood", but rarely, any longer in a "g.. mood".

I suppose referring to something as 'queer' could be problematic aswell. I wonder just how many formerly common words we could find that wouldn't be very PC any more.
 
  • #30


Well, some have, of course turned archaic, and unemotionally speaking, this is as "silly" a reason for rejecting them on basis of being emotionally charged.

The fact is that our words are directly linked with our emotional apparatus, evoking them, as well as verbal/logical associations. Steven Pinker has written a lot on this.

The swearwords, of course, are those most strongly coupled with emotional reflexes.
 

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