News Is Bush's Financial Aid to Palestine a Gesture of Peace or Hypocrisy?

[vanesch]

well, honestly if Iraq does hold elections in the coming months succesfully and an Iraqi chosen government is in place, the U.S. will gain a certain amount of credibility and strength in the ME. Perhaps not with the common people but with the leadership, which in the end is where it needs to be for serious change within Palestine and other countries.

Those elections are going to be a joke. What parties are there ? What are their programmes ? Did they inform the electorate ? Were there debates ? Come on. That will be Chechenya style elections, and I can imagine that the US will be popular with the "leadership" that will come out of it.

I think the problems are beyond palestine and amongst their leaders as well as at least a decade of indoctrination of death cult mindset amongst their youth. The damage of this is directly the responsibility of the leadership of the community and will take a generation to cure even with the creation of a viable state. IMO

I agree. However, the death cult is a result of the miserable conditions in which these younsters grew up, together with a toxic dose of religious fundamentalism (which wouldn't have had a chance if the conditions would have been better). When they regularly saw Israeli tanks destroy houses, helicopters raid over camps and so on, it is understandable that you want to fight and give your life for revenge, out of despair and maybe, in the hope that it will change something. The main problem is with the attitude of Israel, who put the palestinians in this situation. Let us not forget that it was Sharon who provoked the first intifada. He lives politically of the violence: there more violence he can provoke, the more the israeli citizens are scared and ask for revenge ; and who's there to do that ? Sharon.
But I agree that now there has been so much blood on both sides, so much hate and desire for revenge, that it will be difficult to get out of the situation, and it will probably take a generation to cool down. But that is why it is important to get those Palestinian younsters out of that miserable prison that Sharon is building, in order not to get a new generation of bombers. You will have to live with the damage from the past (including some terrorists remaining). That shouldn't refrain people from setting up a state.

Well, I see a compendium of problems here although i agree with much of it. Can we start with an outline of what you believe to be neccesary for the creation of a viable state?
Also, if the U.S. tries to negotiate and offers $$ I will place big bets against your big bets that Palestinian leaders will come to the table...even if they later undermine every bit of success they had found there.

Hey, if I have to give a working peace plan, I want to be paid for it
It seems that, apart from the colonists, that the main difficulty is Jerusalem.
Now I happen to be born in a country where there is a very similar problem (happily, no bombers yet). In Belgium, there are 2 communities (Flemish and French) which have always argued with each other (it dates back to the 13th century). So the state became a federal state, with two sub-states (called regions) Flanders and Wallony. However, the problem remained: both wanted to have Brussels. Well, a solution which more or less works, is: make it a third region!
So I propose that Israel gives up Jerusalem, and that Jerusalem becomes an independent state. A bit like Monaco.

 

[kat]

Those elections are going to be a joke. What parties are there ? What are their programmes ? Did they inform the electorate ? Were there debates ? Come on. That will be Chechenya style elections, and I can imagine that the US will be popular with the "leadership" that will come out of it.

I don't think they will be a "joke". It's a very serious matter which has and is being given serious thought and action by Iraqi's. I have friends who had the great opportunity to be able to talk and well...ask many, many questions of the iraqi's who are will be participating in running the elections. They have been traveling and observing elections throughout the world. At the time my friend was able to meet the IRaqi's, she was supervising the elections in Indonesia. Democratic elections have already been held in many of providences of Iraq already. The biggest issue will be security...registration began the day of our election...I believe parties are formed..I will be glad to look into more accurate answers for you.

I agree. However, the death cult is a result of the miserable conditions in which these younsters grew up, together with a toxic dose of religious fundamentalism (which wouldn't have had a chance if the conditions would have been better). When they regularly saw Israeli tanks destroy houses, helicopters raid over camps and so on, it is understandable that you want to fight and give your life for revenge, out of despair and maybe, in the hope that it will change something. The main problem is with the attitude of Israel, who put the palestinians in this situation. Let us not forget that it was Sharon who provoked the first intifada. He lives politically of the violence: there more violence he can provoke, the more the israeli citizens are scared and ask for revenge ; and who's there to do that ? Sharon.
But I agree that now there has been so much blood on both sides, so much hate and desire for revenge, that it will be difficult to get out of the situation, and it will probably take a generation to cool down. But that is why it is important to get those Palestinian younsters out of that miserable prison that Sharon is building, in order not to get a new generation of bombers. You will have to live with the damage from the past (including some terrorists remaining). That shouldn't refrain people from setting up a state.

This is probably a subject better suited for it's own thread. I will say this..with the hope that a response will be in another thread.. actually..first...are you saying that Sharon provoked the first or second intifada?

Hey, if I have to give a working peace plan, I want to be paid for it
It seems that, apart from the colonists, that the main difficulty is Jerusalem.
Now I happen to be born in a country where there is a very similar problem (happily, no bombers yet). In Belgium, there are 2 communities (Flemish and French) which have always argued with each other (it dates back to the 13th century). So the state became a federal state, with two sub-states (called regions) Flanders and Wallony. However, the problem remained: both wanted to have Brussels. Well, a solution which more or less works, is: make it a third region!
So I propose that Israel gives up Jerusalem, and that Jerusalem becomes an independent state. A bit like Monaco.

I'm sorry, perhaps my question wasn't clear... I'm asking what you think to be the neccesary pre-requisites for the formation of a state...any state in order for it to be a viable functioning state...