Is Canada a Safer Alternative After Zimmerman Verdict?

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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57593459-504083/george-zimmerman-verdict-former-neighborhood-watch-leader-not-guilty-in-death-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin/

Canada's starting to look better by the day I must say.
 
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The ABC Chief of legal affairs is about to have a stroke he's so appalled by the actions of the defense lawyers. He said he can't wait to find out what the jurors were thinking.

This is truly a miscarriage of justice. Like he said, that someone could stalk a person, start a fight with them and then shoot them because he was afraid of being hit, and then be found innocent of the killing is just unbelievable. Don't try to defend yourself in Florida, the person who attacked you can legally kill you.
 
I can't imagine the kind of riots that are going to ensue because of this absolutely disgusting decision. I feel bad for the kid's parents. I don't get how Florida manages to screw up over and over.
 
Wow, I'm really surprised. But then again, it *is* Florida, after all.
 
Like he said, that someone could stalk a person, start a fight with them and then shoot them because he was afraid of being hit
What happens if you start a fight with somebody and that person starts beating you. Do you have to let them kill you?
 
Am I the only one who thinks Martin was a big city hoodlum who jumped the wrong country boy?


(duck and cover)

old jim
 
leroyjenkens said:
What happens if you start a fight with somebody and that person starts beating you. Do you have to let them kill you?
You can kill them, but then you are guilty of at least manslaughter.
 
jim hardy said:
Am I the only one who thinks Martin was a big city hoodlum who jumped the wrong country boy?


(duck and cover)

old jim
I hope you're just making a really, really bad joke. You realize that Zimmerman was chasing after the kid? If you aren't familiar with the case, you really shouldn't comment.

From the article in the OP

call placed by Zimmerman the night of the Feb. 26, 2012 altercation, in which he tells a non-emergency dispatcher he is following the teen and uses the terms "f--ing punks" and "---holes." Prosecutors attempted to prove that the language shows Zimmerman acted with ill will or spite, elements of the second degree murder charge.
 
jim hardy said:
Am I the only one who thinks Martin was a big city hoodlum who jumped the wrong country boy?
Murder is murder imo (speaking in loose terms). The arguments given by both of the sides have made things really hazy for me but the end result is black and white: the 17 year old kid was killed.
 
Didn't follow this case at all , all I know is the murderer is a middle-aged white guy and the victim a black guy and that everybody thinks the killer should be convicted (I'm unaware if there's enough information available for the public to have an informed opinion , is there?).It seems that the interest of this case is very racial in nature.

I say who cares about their race , just give him a fair trial and let the justice system operate like they always do , for better or for worst.

The new trend in social medias with people regrouping and putting other people on their own amateurish trial is starting to worry me to be honest.
 
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Florida sentencing laws according to Wiki.

Manslaughter Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Aggravated manslaughter of a child Maximum of 30 years in prison; maximum could be enhanced to life in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Third degree murder Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Second degree murder Maximum of life in prison; Minimum of 25 years if a firearm is used, otherwise a minimum of 20.5 years under sentencing guidelines for a person with a clean record.

First degree murder Death penalty or life in prison. Parole in FL has been abolished for all crimes since 1983.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder_in_the_United_States

A manslaughter charge has about the same punishment as a second degree murder charge. It will be interesting to hear what the jury has to say.

Edit: They had overcharged Zimmerman with an original charge of first degree murder and they ended up getting nothing.

My wife was a juror on a similar case and that guy walked also, because their was no charge that fit the crime.
 
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Zimmerman confronted Trayvon (in a very benign way) because there were recently several burglaries in the neighborhood. Trayvon beat the crap out of him and Zimmerman feared for his life. By the stand your ground law in Florida you can kill someone even if you THINK your life is at risk. Zimmerman killed Trayvon in self defense.
 
In related news, Florida justice goes on: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/
 
jim hardy said:
Am I the only one who thinks Martin was a big city hoodlum who jumped the wrong country boy?


(duck and cover)

old jim
No, you're not.

The injustice here is the malicious prosecution, outside influences and race baiting. But the jury came to the only conclusion possible: if someone is on top of you, beating you, shooting them is self defense.
 
Physics_UG said:
By the stand your ground law in Florida you can kill someone even if you THINK your life is at risk.
You say this like this law isn't ridiculous and barbaric.
 
It's a terrible tragedy caused by some self appointed vigilante with a history of violence (Zimmerman has arrests for both domestic violence and assaulting a police officer) chasing an innocent kid. The kid wasn't doing anything illegal, if you're not familiar with what happened, you can read the transcripts of the calls Zimmerman made where police dispatch told him to stop going after the kid and let them handle it. Zimmerman ignored the police warning to back off. The entire thing is Zimmerman's fault.

But in Florida, you only need to be afraid of bodily injury at the time you kill the person you attacked to be considered innocent.
 
WannabeNewton said:
Murder is murder imo (speaking in loose terms). The arguments given by both of the sides have made things really hazy for me but the end result is black and white: the 17 year old kid was killed.
Yes, you are speaking loosely. The law isn't.
 
Evo said:
It's a terrible tragedy caused by some self appointed vigilante with a history of violence (Zimmerman has arrests for both domestic violence and assaulting a police officer) chasing an innocent kid. The kid wasn't doing anything illegal, if you're not familiar with what happened, you can read the transcripts of the calls Zimmerman made where police dispatch told him to stop going after the kid and let them handle it. Zimmerman ignored the police warning to back off. The entire thing is Zimmerman's fault.

But in Florida, you only need to be afraid of bodily injury at the time you kill the person you attacked to be considered innocent.
All of that is true (though he wasn't just afraid of injury: he was being injured) and the relevant part at the end points to an innocent verdict.
 
WannabeNewton said:
You say this like this law isn't ridiculous and barbaric.
FYI, this case was not about the stand your ground law. Not sure where it came from(I think it was the early media sensationalism), but it was not part of the case.
 
russ_watters said:
All of that is true (though he wasn't just afraid of injury: he was being injured) and the relevant part at the end points to an innocent verdict.
Yes, according to Florida law, they had to use "reasonable doubt", not knowing all of the details when Zimmerman shot the kid. I did hear the ABC analyst tonight saying that according to Zimmerman's testimony that his description of his position and Martin's it would have been physically impossible for him to get his gun out. But I don't know the details, supposedly this will be gone over in more detail later.
 
reenmachine said:
Didn't follow this case at all , all I know is the murderer is a middle-aged white guy...
Zimmerman was 28 at the time and he's half Hispanic and looks and self-identifies as hispanic. It just makes for better race baiting to call him white.
 
Evo said:
Yes, according to Florida law, they had to use "reasonable doubt", not knowing all of the details when Zimmerman shot the kid. I did hear the ABC analyst tonight saying that according to Zimmerman's testimony that his description of his position and Martin's it would have been physically impossible for him to get his gun out. But I don't know the details, supposedly this will be gone over in more detail later.
Cmon, Evo, we know the details clearly enough from witnesses and forensics: Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, when Zimmerman shot him.
 
What surprises me is that the prosecution cannot appeal the decision reached. I guess, under what grounds could they. Miscarriage of justice, or no fair trial?
 
russ_watters said:
Cmon, Evo, we know the details clearly enough from witnesses and forensics: Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, when Zimmerman shot him.
Not really.

russ_watters said:
How is that relevant?
I was addressing your comment about calling Zimmerman white instead of Hispanic was playing the race card, when actually calling him Hispanic would be worse in the eyes of the black community, IMO.
 
WannabeNewton said:
You say this like this law isn't ridiculous and barbaric.

It might be barbaric but it's the law. And in this case Zimmerman was getting the **** beat out of him. That kid was just a little punk. The pics the news media first posted of him were when he was much younger and he looks more innocent in those pics.
 
russ_watters said:
Cmon, Evo, we know the details clearly enough from witnesses and forensics: Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him, when Zimmerman shot him.
According to eyewitnesses, as far as they could tell, it was Zimmerman on top of Martin.

Eyewitnesses Describe Zimmerman As Aggressor

http://www.wusa9.com/news/nation-world/article/264082/381/Eyewitnesses-Describe-Zimmerman-As-Aggressor
 
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