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Bush NOT Honest & Trustworthy/Republican Lies

  1. Dec 29, 2005 #1

    SOS2008

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    Since I could not find the original thread on this topic, and it is not in the directory of frequently discussed topics (but should be), here’s an update on a few (major) events:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10576609/page/3/
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 31, 2005 #2

    Ivan Seeking

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  4. Dec 31, 2005 #3

    SOS2008

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  5. Jan 21, 2006 #4

    SOS2008

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10964067/

    <Insert clapping and cheering smilie here. >
     
  6. Jan 22, 2006 #5

    loseyourname

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    Even if you agree that Bush is a liar and has suspended many civil liberties, I don't see how you can clap and cheer at a singer comparing Homeland Security to the Gestapo. The DHS might tap some phone lines and conduct some questionable investigations, but the Gestapo hauled people off to death camps. When people make these sensationalistic comparisons, they're only hurting their own case and making themselves look like partisan fearmongers. Given that Belafonte probably thinks Bush is a partisan fearmonger, shouldn't he try to avoid becoming the same thing?
     
  7. Jan 22, 2006 #6
    Well, it all depends on your race loseyourname. If you are middle eastern, you very well could be hauled off with no reason and sent to guantanamo and not be given the right to trial or even see a lawer for years.
    The US did this to a canadian citizen and held him in a secret Syrian prison. It was big news in canada for his release.
     
  8. Jan 22, 2006 #7

    loseyourname

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    I sympathize with them, but it's still not the same as being hauled off to be used as slave labor, having human pain thresholds tested on you, then being systematically killed. And the US isn't attempting to haul off and kill every single Islamic person in the Americas to eliminate their race from the planet.

    I still don't see how any reasonable person can honestly expect to be taken seriously if they're going to compare questionable investigation techniques to one of history's largest genocides.
     
  9. Jan 22, 2006 #8
    Even the Gestapo started small.

    it was not until the final solution was implemented that any of the killing started.

    perhaps one should just ay that Bush and his administration are leaning toward the Gestapo side a bit and some people are afraid they may begin to fall.
     
  10. Jan 22, 2006 #9

    russ_watters

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    Are you serious?? You said "perhaps" - but out with it: do you actually think Bush wants to start killing-off American Muslims and if so, do you have any evidence from Bush's past actions that he actually wants to start doing that?

    Once again, Gestapo was death camps.

    And FYI, Hitler made references to that as early as 1919. It was always his goal to exterminate the Jews. Has Bush ever said he desires to exterminate the Muslims? Regardless of when, though - what's your point? You are pretty much saying outright that Bush is going in that direction. That's over-the-top absurd.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2006
  11. Jan 22, 2006 #10
    Your right.. I should have said "the bush administration" because it is obvious that Bush is not running his brach at all.

    There are many around him that I think DO in fact want to exterminate Muslims, but smart people learn from the past, and they know to be quiet about such things.

    Oh, and Gestapo was the secret police... they were around before they even started sending the jews to the ghettos.
     
  12. Jan 22, 2006 #11

    Bystander

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    There must be something to Nazi mysticism! They were able to go back in time and establish the Gestapo prior to 1516 (the Venice ghetto; there could be older examples). Nifty.
    Nothing new: Roosevelt in WW II, social services types for the last 20-30 years, DEA for however long they've been operating; Washington might have done his two terms without a whole lot of fibbing, but that was the last time this country might have had a president who told it as it was or is.
    Someone who just fell from the turnip truck yesterday and has never seen nor heard any politician before in his/her life might be so naive as to expect Jimmy Stewart (Mr. Deeds) conduct from public figures. People who have not been raised in a social or political vacuum really should know better than to expect other people to buy the sort of nonsense Belafonte is peddling.
     
  13. Jan 22, 2006 #12

    loseyourname

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    I really don't get this "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing? Are people really so hateful of Bush that they're willing to endorse any criticism of his administration and actions, even when it's this far off-base? Hell, I'm as pro-small government and civil liberties as anyone, and don't like a lot of what the justice department and it's subsidiaries have done, but Belafonte is being an idiot and there is no comparison between Homeland Security and the Gestapo. Sure, they started small by seizing all Jewish owned businesses and assets, making them all wear stars of David on their sleezes, and making it legal to harass or harm them in pretty much any way one pleased.

    Look, holding detainees without access to legal counsel is unconstitutional and a terrible thing to do, but we lose perspective when we start comparing every police state action to Nazism. It's sensationalism and the posters in here are smart enough to know that. Has history always been this prone to hyperbole? I know ESPN is eager to proclaim every exceptional young athlete that comes up as the greatest prospect ever and any team that performs well as the greatest ever, and the Ron Artest brawl from last year as the worst thing to ever happen to the NBA, but does this same tendency need to infect legitimate news reporting as well? Was every religious nut claiming to be a prophet the next Jesus back in the day? Was every guy that conquered ten acres the next Alexander the Great? Can't thing just be what they are? Isn't it enough that Bush is doing perfectly detestable things (heck, compare him to Lincoln and Roosevelt) without needing to compare him to one of the most evil and prolific dictators that ever lived? Was Clinton comparable to Caligula?
     
  14. Jan 22, 2006 #13
    Well said.
     
  15. Jan 22, 2006 #14

    russ_watters

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    Wow. Just wow.
    LYN, I guess it isn't hyperbole if you really believe it, is it? That doesn't make it any less absurd, but at least we know it's a real opinion.
    4 doesn't equal 6, Computergeek. Even if you think they are "leaning" in that direction (whatever that means :confused: ) or just being secretive or starting off slow (which then means your opinion is based on..... nothing), the fact of the matter is that the Bush admin hasn't done anything that can be compared to Hitler. Gitmo is not a death camp. Muslims are not wearing armbands or being discriminated against (ie, the laws against owning businesses or voting) by the law - these were some of Hitler's very first acts against the Jews and the Bush admin hasn't even come close.

    Computergeek, maybe you honestly believe it, which means (kinda) that it isn't hyperbole, but believing that 6=4 is not reasonable or rational.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2006
  16. Jan 22, 2006 #15
    I think you underestimate the kind of character that some of his advisors have.
     
  17. Jan 22, 2006 #16

    russ_watters

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    And I think your opinion has no basis whatsoever. Heck, you practically admitted as much! They are going slow (and Bush only has 3 years left) and being secretive (so you know things you say we don't know because they are secret :rolleyes: ).

    How do you know, Computergeek? Give us some facts. Make a logical argument. Hyperbole or not, again, it is still absurd if it is baseless.
     
  18. Jan 22, 2006 #17
    Indeed, it is upsetting that a fellow Canadian was shipped to Syria by the U.S., as was subsequently tortured. Why did they do it? Why, everyone was doing it; it was the cool thing to do, of course.
     
  19. Jan 22, 2006 #18
    First off, I was providing an argument as to how Belefonte COULD have made such a comparison. That does not mean that I agree with everything he said.

    I know you have heard many people express such opinion about Muslims. I have heard many people of all ages make such comments. I think it is much more likely that the Neo-conservatives around bush either openly or secretly wish to get rid of all muslims. Heck... Some in Bush's administration actually advised Bush to nuke Mecca after sept. 11.
     
  20. Jan 22, 2006 #19
    Pre-war intelligence? It was rock solid! The president himself said so. Surely the president would not base a war and thousands upon thousands of casualties on unreliable information now, would he? Yup, only a matter of time before them Iraqi nukes are found.
     
  21. Jan 22, 2006 #20
    Surely he would not lie about warrantless searches either.
     
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