Is Classical EM Field the Same as Photon Wave Function?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between classical electromagnetism (EM) and quantum mechanics (QM), particularly focusing on the concepts of locality and non-locality in these frameworks. Participants explore how EM can be reconciled with QM and the implications of Bell's theorem on these theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that quantum mechanics is non-local, while others challenge this notion, suggesting that standard QM is based on Galilean transformations which are local.
  • It is proposed that EM is local because it can be derived from special relativity (SR) and is based on Coulomb's law.
  • Participants discuss the cluster decomposition property in quantum field theory (QFT) and its implications for locality, noting that it excludes correlations from its definition of locality.
  • Some argue that the nature of correlations in Bell-type experiments complicates the discussion of locality, suggesting that the question of locality may not apply to correlated systems.
  • Different types of locality are mentioned, including signal locality and Bell locality, with some participants explaining that signal locality does not involve correlations, while Bell non-locality relates to the violation of Bell inequalities.
  • There is a suggestion that if Bell had used different terminology, many discussions surrounding his theorem might not exist, raising questions about the clarity of terms like local and non-local.
  • One participant questions the existence of a hypothetical signal that could communicate without traveling through space, while still obeying the principles of SR.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of locality and non-locality in quantum mechanics and electromagnetism. There is no consensus on whether EM can be considered non-local or how to interpret the implications of Bell's theorem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions of locality and non-locality can vary, and the discussion involves complex interpretations of quantum mechanics and electromagnetism that may depend on specific assumptions or definitions.

  • #61
[QUOTE
Blue Scallop said:
They say it takes 9 minutes for the sunlight to travel to earth. You are saying it only looks like the field is propagating, but it isn't because the field is defined all over space.. so before the sunlight photons even reach the earth.. those same photon fields are already on earth?? and only the field is changing values making it looks like the sun light is travelling?
Although the field is defined all over space (time), no one says it can't have zero amplitude for a very large region. (Here the amplitude is the complex probability amplitude that you square to get detection probability).

So if we do an experiment in the lab that involves generating a field with exactly one photon at the event (Alice's Source Emits, t=0) then the field is defined accordingly. If the geometry is right, we can predict that this field will evolve over time and we end up with a high probability amplitude for the event (Bob's detector fires, ##t=t_{propagation}##)

and only the field is changing values making it looks like the sun light is travelling?
In the sense described above, yes.
 
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  • #62
Demystifier said:
No there isn't. Classical EM field depends on only one position. However, it contains many photons so "Bohmization" requires a wave function that depends on many positions.

Haven't you seen Bill message in #56 (just before you posted). He said maybe. What is wrong with contents in the paper he gave:

http://cds.cern.ch/record/944002/files/0604169.pdf
 
  • #63
Blue Scallop said:
Haven't you seen Bill message in #56 (just before you posted). He said maybe. What is wrong with contents in the paper he gave:

http://cds.cern.ch/record/944002/files/0604169.pdf
Nothing is wrong with that paper. But classical EM field is not the same thing as photon wave function, even if they satisfy the same Maxwell equations. For more details see
https://arxiv.org/abs/1205.1992 Sec. 8.3.3.5.
 
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