Is curved space allowed to show discontinuities (steps)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational effects of a hollow sphere on a test mass, particularly focusing on the nature of the gravitational attraction as the test mass moves from the center of the sphere to its surface and beyond. Participants explore the implications of this scenario for understanding discontinuities in gravitational effects and the nature of curved space models.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes how the gravitational effect on a test mass inside a hollow sphere is zero until it reaches the surface, where it then experiences a 1 G attraction, suggesting a discontinuity in the gravitational effect.
  • Another participant questions the assumption of a discontinuity by asking about the thickness of the shell, implying that the gravitational effect may not be as straightforward as initially presented.
  • A participant considers the implications of the shell's thickness, proposing that the gravitational effect could transition smoothly from zero to a non-zero value as the test mass passes through the shell, leading to a more complex plot of gravitational effects.
  • There is speculation about the nature of the transition points at the inner and outer radii of the shell, with one participant suggesting that the outer transition may not be smooth and could involve a sharp change in gravitational effects.
  • Another participant notes that while the gravitational acceleration function is continuous at both transition points, its first derivative is not, indicating a potential for abrupt changes in the gravitational force experienced by the test mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the gravitational effect exhibits a discontinuity or a smooth transition, with some suggesting that the thickness of the shell alters the nature of the gravitational effect. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact behavior of gravitational attraction in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the importance of shell thickness and the nature of transition points in understanding gravitational effects, but there are unresolved assumptions about how these factors influence the overall gravitational behavior.

bahamagreen
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Recall the gravitational effect of a hollow sphere upon a test mass inside ... no net attraction of the test mass anywhere within the sphere.

Let this sphere be large and dense enough to have 1 G of attraction on a test mass resting on its outer surface.

Plotting the measure of effect on the test mass positioned along a line from the center of the sphere to the sphere's surface and continuing radially outside the sphere, at first approximation it looks like the plot of effect against radius would show no effect from the center to the sphere's radius, then 1 G effect continuing from there and gradually diminishing.

This plot would appear to represent a discontinuity at the radius where the effect steps from 0 to 1 G.

In thinking about this, I imagine we make a hole in the sphere to see what happens as we pass a test mass through it...

If the hole is made by removing material from the sphere, that changes the effect, especially when in very close proximity to the hole, because the subtended area of the plane of the hole with respect to the test mass inside approaches 1/2 at the hole plane itself. And there is the missing mass of the hole to account for...

Maybe an improved version of making the hole might be to use a radially retracting system like the old fashioned aperture of a camera - where equal amounts of sphere mass would be moved and aligned around the hole uniformly. Since the plotting experiment is done along a single radial line from the sphere center through the hole center, there might be at least one particular redistribution of hole mass to the surface around it that results in the same original plots - 0 inside from center to radius, then 1 G from there diminishing with further distance. But it look like there will be an important error based on the diameter of the hole - as soon as the test mass passes through the plane of the hole from the center of the sphere, there will be a region between that plane and the radius of the sphere where the test mass will find that all of the sphere's mass is on one side before reaching the radius. Likewise the test mass approaching from outside will encounter the same thing after it has passed the radius but before passing through the plane of the hole center.

But maybe for thought experiment purposes we can just imagine no actual hole is necessary and that the sphere is permeable to the test mass... maybe the sphere is comprised of a geodesic lattice? Anyway, the point is, what is going on at the radius when the attraction steps from 0 to 1? Is this thinking correct? Are there any other instances of gravity making what appears to be discontinuous step functions?

What does this mean for curved space models? Can curved space "step"?
 
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bahamagreen said:
Plotting the measure of effect on the test mass positioned along a line from the center of the sphere to the sphere's surface and continuing radially outside the sphere, at first approximation it looks like the plot of effect against radius would show no effect from the center to the sphere's radius, then 1 G effect continuing from there and gradually diminishing.

This plot would appear to represent a discontinuity at the radius where the effect steps from 0 to 1 G.
Not really, because: how thick is the shell?
 
I thought about the thickness of the shell...

So you are thinking that the effect will be 0 inside the inner radius, then in passing through the shell, the parts of the shell at further radius continue to have 0 effect as the parts of the shell at lesser radius begin to develop a central attraction that rises with increasing passage through the shell to the outer radius...

To me, what that does is change the plot so it has a zero level inside the inner radius, an increasing level through the radius of the shell thickness, and then a third level that starts with 1 G at the outer radius and diminishes from there...

So then the question is about the transition points (inner and outer shell radii).

I can see the inner transition changing from 0 to greater than zero in a smooth way.

For some reason I think that the outer transition is not going to be smooth. Even if the effect at the outer radius is equal when approached from each side (no step), it seems like the inner side effect might be ramping up either straight or exponentially approaching the outer radius, and the outer effect side ramping up exponentially in its approach. That would make the transition point kind of sharp.
 
bahamagreen said:
For some reason I think that the outer transition is not going to be smooth. Even if the effect at the outer radius is equal when approached from each side (no step), it seems like the inner side effect might be ramping up either straight or exponentially approaching the outer radius, and the outer effect side ramping up exponentially in its approach. That would make the transition point kind of sharp.
The function of gravitational acceleration along the radius is continuous at both points. It's first derivate is not, at both points.
 

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