Is electromagnetic radiation a form of kinetic energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the classification of electromagnetic (EM) radiation in terms of energy types, specifically whether it can be considered a form of kinetic energy. Participants explore theoretical implications, calculations, and comparisons with other particles, such as the Higgs boson, in the context of energy definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the classification of EM radiation as kinetic energy, arguing that since photons are massless, they cannot possess kinetic energy defined as 1/2 mv^2.
  • Another participant points out that mass is not necessary for momentum, suggesting that photons can still have momentum despite being massless.
  • A different participant highlights the inapplicability of the rest energy equation E = mc^2 for photons, noting that photons are never at rest and thus require different equations to describe their energy.
  • One participant asserts that EM radiation is entirely kinetic energy, providing a relativistic perspective on kinetic energy that differs from classical definitions.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of the energy associated with the Higgs boson, with one participant suggesting it may be potential energy, while another seeks clarification on whether it is kinetic or something else.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether EM radiation qualifies as kinetic energy, with no consensus reached. Some participants assert it is kinetic energy, while others challenge this classification based on the properties of photons.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various equations and concepts, indicating a reliance on specific definitions of energy and momentum that may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical interpretations and assumptions about energy types.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and educators in physics, particularly those exploring the nature of energy in relation to electromagnetic radiation and particle physics.

Green dwarf
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Hi, I'm a high school science teacher. Most textbooks classify EM radiation as kinetic energy. But this doesn't seem right to me. As a photon is massless it's hard to see how it can have kinetic energy which is 1/2 mv^2.
It could be said that it has energy hf and therefore mass hf/c^2. Then its kinetic energy would be 1/2 hf/c^2 x c^2, which is 1/2 hf. If its energy is kinetic, then it seems hf = 1/2 hf . . . disproof by contradiction? Or is half of its energy kinetic and half something else?
A Higgs boson has an energy/mass of about 127 GeV. This is the case even if it's not moving, so it's not kinetic energy. Is it a separate type of energy (not kinetic or potential) - maybe mass energy or rest-mass energy. If it is, then can a photon (which is also a boson) be energy of the same type?
 
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In the middle of your calculations you assumed ##E = mc^2## to get the mass of a photon. This equation is for the rest energy of a particle. In fact. It is sometimes written as ##E_0 = mc^2##.

As a photon is never at rest this equation does not apply.

The equation relating the mass and total energy of a particle is

##E = \gamma mc^2##

As the photon travels at ##c## its gamma factor is undefined, so this equation doesn't apply either.

Another useful equation is

##E^2 = p^2c^2 + m^2c^4##

This applies to all particles, including massless photons, in which case it reduces to

##E = pc##
 
Thanks DrClaude and PeroK for your responses pointing out the errors in my thinking. I still don't know the answer to my question though - whether EM radiation is kinetic energy. Just a yes/no answer would be ok.
 
Green dwarf said:
Thanks DrClaude and PeroK for your responses pointing out the errors in my thinking. I still don't know the answer to my question though - whether EM radiation is kinetic energy. Just a yes/no answer would be ok.

"Yes"

Please note that the people who responded made an effort to not just say "Yes" or "No", but rather tried to explain the answer.

Zz.
 
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EM radiation is unique in that it is all kinetic energy.

The equation for kinetic energy that you quoted above ##T = \frac{1}{2} mv^2## is a nonrelativistic approximation which cannot be used for light.
The more correct form for the kinetic energy is:
##T = E - mc^2##
where ##E = \sqrt{m^2c^4 + p^2c^2}##
For light, ##m=0##, so you get
##T = pc##

For your benefit, let's approximate T when v<<c.
##p=\gamma m v \approx m v##
##E \approx mc^2 \sqrt{1 + v^2/c^2} \approx mc^2 + \frac{1}{2} m v^2##
Therefore, ##T \approx \frac{1}{2}mv^2##
 
Thanks ZapperZ and Khashishi. I am now happy that EM radiation is kinetic energy.
I am still wondering though, what type of energy is the 127 GeV of a Higgs boson. Is it kinetic or potential or something else?
 
Potential. Rest mass is potential energy.
 
Thanks Khashishi.
 

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