Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

I Is fine tuning maximized complexity?

  1. Sep 13, 2017 #1
    It is often argued that the constants of nature are so finely tuned for life, that the slightest change to them would disallow life. Is this the same as saying that they are what is required to maximize complexity in the world?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 13, 2017 #2

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    Repeated often, but wrong.

    In addition, different parameters or laws could lead to different kinds of intelligent entities.
    Define complexity.
     
  4. Sep 14, 2017 #3

    Fra

    User Avatar

    In my eyes "fine tuning" is a statment of the theoretical framework and it's way of handling the parameter space rather than a statment that nature somehow is a priori improbable - a more sane view is that this is just a result of the incomplete or maybe even poor choice of explanatory framework.

    /Fredrik
     
  5. Sep 14, 2017 #4

    haushofer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    No. Finetuning is often a hint that the underlying theory is missing a key assumption. Take for instance the epicykel theory in geocentric theories of the solar system. Those are highly finetuned, but this doesn't say anything about the complexity of our solar system; it says something about the completity of the epicykel theory.
     
  6. Sep 14, 2017 #5

    haushofer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Yes. That paper deserves definitely more attention. Especially from creationists :P
     
  7. Sep 14, 2017 #6
    I think things are more complex when there are more ways of combining things. I suppose this allows more possible states than otherwise. So does this mean that complexity allows there to be more entropy than otherwise? More possible states mean more entropy, right?
     
  8. Sep 14, 2017 #7

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    A universe with more black holes (e. g. stronger gravity or weaker strong interaction) would have a much higher entropy.
     
  9. Sep 19, 2017 #8

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    What they usually omit to say is that it would disallow life as we know it. Nobody ever presented evidence that it would disallow any kind of life.
     
  10. Sep 19, 2017 #9

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Entropy is related to (the lack of) order. Complexity is related to organization. Order and organization are not the same. Life is an organized disorder. See the Appendix in https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.08341 .
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?
Draft saved Draft deleted