Is Friction Caused by Electron Repulsion in Collisions?

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    Friction
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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the nature of friction and its relationship to atomic interactions, particularly focusing on whether electron repulsion plays a role in frictional forces. Participants examine the mechanics of friction at both atomic and macroscopic scales, including the implications of surface interactions and energy dissipation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how friction can occur if atomic interactions are dominated by electron repulsion, suggesting a need for clarification on the nature of contact at larger scales.
  • Another participant asserts that friction forces operate at a larger scale than atomic interactions, implying that the atomic model does not fully account for macroscopic phenomena.
  • A participant notes that even without direct contact, electromagnetic forces still exist between objects, and surface imperfections affect the direction of these forces during motion.
  • One participant seeks to understand how non-perpendicular forces contribute to heat generation during friction, questioning the source of energy release.
  • Another participant explains that the heat generated is a result of interactions that are not perfectly elastic, indicating energy loss during frictional processes.
  • A later reply attempts to clarify the concept of perfectly elastic collisions, stating that such collisions conserve kinetic energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of atomic interactions in friction, with some emphasizing the importance of surface forces and imperfections, while others focus on the implications of energy dissipation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact mechanisms behind heat generation in friction.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about atomic interactions and the definitions of elastic versus inelastic collisions. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of energy transfer in frictional forces.

AzonicZeniths
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I was just wondering, because on an atomic scale, nothing ever touches due to electron repulsion, why is there friction?
 
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Friction forces occur at larger scale, not that tiny.
 
Even when not touching, there are still forces (electromagnetic) between objects. It isn't like every surface is a mag-lev train - surface defects mean the forces aren't perpendicular to the direction of motion.
 
Ok I now understand that this the forces aren't perpendicular, but why would this produce heat? Where is the energy being released?
 
The heat is due to the fact that the interactions are not perfectly elastic.
 
russ_watters said:
perfectly elastic.

Sorry I'm being stupid right now but, what do you mean by that?
 
AzonicZeniths said:
Sorry I'm being stupid right now but, what do you mean by that?

a perfectly elastic collision is one in which kinetic energy is conserved.
 

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