Is God bound by logic or is God above all laws, even that of logic?

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The discussion centers on the nature of God, particularly regarding the concepts of omnipotence and logic. Participants debate whether an all-powerful God can be illogical, arguing that if God created the laws of logic, He must adhere to them, thus being logical. Some suggest that applying human standards to God is flawed, as God transcends human understanding and logic. The conversation also touches on the implications of God's perfection, with some asserting that a perfect being cannot act illogically, while others propose that omnipotence does not equate to perfection and that God could exist beyond human comprehension. The dialogue raises questions about the definitions of omnipotence and the nature of reality, with some arguing that human concepts of God may limit the understanding of divine attributes. Ultimately, the discussion highlights the complexities of defining God within the constraints of human logic and philosophical inquiry.
  • #31
Jikx said:
A very short point..

If God is all powerful beyond belief, then it would be possible that God can be illogical and still exist, as God is not bound by any laws, not even that of logic.

What do you guys think?


god doesn't exist, end of logic
 
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  • #32
haha.. maybe you would care to explain the reasoning or rather, the logic behind your statement.

What if God could create a rock so large that he couldn't lift it, yet could still lift it and not lift it (because of its size) at the same time. Inconcievable yes? But for some reason it could still make some sort of weird sense if you believe that god can do anything.. starting to sound a bit like quantum mechanics or something.
 
  • #33
god-dog-it

god-logic=oxymormon.

i'm doing laundry yesterday at the laundramat. there were two Punjabs and one woman from Mexico (que la steama').

I asked the Punjab's a question similar to your thread topic.

This was our conversation:

Me: What God do you believe in?

Them: God? We do not believe like ...

Me: What God do you worship, kundalini ...c'mon?

Punjabs: We do not believe like that. God is unknown-that is all we know.



I guess you would have had to have been there. The moment was ...

God is unknown. I wonder why they didn't teach me that in Catholic sk :devil: oool.
 
  • #34
Jikx said:
What if God could create a rock so large that he couldn't lift it, yet could still lift it and not lift it (because of its size) at the same time. Inconcievable yes? But for some reason it could still make some sort of weird sense if you believe that god can do anything.. starting to sound a bit like quantum mechanics or something.

I realize that in this forum God has not yet been proven, but I am a believer, and I believe that God is an omnipotent, perfect metaphysical being. Therefore, he would not be able to create a rock so large that he couldn't lift it, because that would be a mistake: an imperfection.

It is difficult to prove whether God exists without using a lot of theology. Not knowing where everybody in this thread stands theologically, I will not try to force my beliefs upon you unless asked to.
 
  • #35
first of all, God, is the most illogical of all illogical theories, and when I use the term illogical, I do not mean illogical for rhe humam perception, no, it's deeper and simpliest than that, the theory of God is illogical for all the nature of existence itself, there are a lot of arguments do aprove God as real, for instance, the "perfection" of reality, the humam condition, the goodness of the world, the fight against evil, and so on, but the strongest argument that theists possess, is that existence could not came from nothing, it was a supreme and omnipresent being that created all this, in my opinion that is the faulty argument of them all, why could God (an illogical and impossible being) had always existed, and the universe (or that which compose it) could not had exist forever
 
  • #36
I think that it is important to remember where the idea of God came from... Humans Created God, and seeing that he is only a creation of mankind that is relative to what one belives. In order to create something perfect the creator must be perfect, thus God can not be Omnipotence (all powerful), Omniscience (all knowing)
nor Omnibenevolence (all loving), since it would imply that humans (or a human) is perfect...
Just food for thought...
 
  • #37
Has it ever occurred to you that 'man' didn't make God, and surprisingly enough man can not create, we can transform, invent, but not create, cause to create is implying no resource, but everything man makes comes from a resource of some sort.

Secondly, your comment is like saying that man can't imagine dragons cause in no way are dragons a part of reality, yet we can imagine them, so the same implies with God.
 
  • #38
without faith god is nothing. therefore proving gods existence would destroy him.

why would god being perfect and so supreme make something as dull witted and stupid as the human race?
 
  • #39
In regards to AiA message...

I am not sure how you interpretted they way you did but maybe I should clarify...

I am trying to say that the idea of God came from man. Thus we created God. Just like the idea of dragons, elves, and monsters were all ideas of man... Heck even things like electrons and electromagnetic waves. All of these things are made (created) in the minds of human beings.

Also in regards to your first statement, how would you consider a thought a transformation of something. A human being can create thoughts and ideas in there minds without transfroming anything.
 
  • #40
I think it was already said somewhere in all these ramblings but if "God" is omnipotent then god controls the foundation of logic. What ever "God" "wills" should fit perfectly and logically with the universe.
As for the omnipotent/all-powerful problem, if "God" is all then nothing exists beyond "God" and "God" has power over all that is manifest as part of "God". By this definition anything outside of "God" or outside of "God's" power does not exist. The idea of "God" creating a stone that "God" can not lift is senseless because anything "God" creates would be within "God" to begin with. It would be held in the proverbial "hands" of "God" when it was created. When you ask that question you are metaphorically referring to the creation of something beyond the bounds of infinity. If there are no boundries to infinity then nothing can exist beyond infinity.
 

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