Is Gravity Caused by Pressure and Matter Repelling Dark Matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the idea of gravity being caused by pressure and the interaction of matter with dark matter, particularly focusing on whether gravity can be understood as a low-pressure area created by matter in a field of matter-repelling dark matter. The conversation touches on theoretical frameworks, models of gravity, and the implications of these ideas in relation to established theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravity could be conceptualized as a pressure field, with matter representing low-pressure areas influenced by dark matter.
  • Others argue that dark matter attracts rather than repels, suggesting that it behaves like any entity with positive energy.
  • A participant references Wheeler's work, indicating that similar ideas have been previously formulated, though details are not specified.
  • Some contributions mention the LeSage gravity model, noting that it is generally not considered a viable alternative to Newtonian gravity and is inconsistent with general relativity.
  • There is a discussion about the equation of state for vacuum, questioning whether vacuum can gravitate and how pressure and volumetric density of matter relate in this context.
  • A later reply summarizes a lay interpretation of gravity as a mechanical negative pressure, outlining a model involving particles creating pressure and shadows that lead to gravitational attraction.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the validity of claims regarding the equilibrium of volumetric density and pressure in vacuum and whether gravity can be expressed as negative pressure.
  • One participant asserts that LeSage gravity is inconsistent with observations, reinforcing skepticism about the model.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the proposed models or the relationship between gravity, pressure, and dark matter. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the nature of dark matter and the implications of the LeSage gravity model.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about the nature of dark matter, the applicability of the LeSage model, and the relationship between pressure and volumetric density in vacuum. The discussion does not resolve whether gravity can be accurately described as negative pressure.

Pronoein
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Hello, this is an incredible simple question but I couldn't find an answer by myself.

Is there a theory where gravity is a pressure and particles of matter low-pressure areas? (the pressure field could come from the overwhelming presence of a matter-repelling dark matter).
 
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Dark matter does not repel, it also attracts, as anything with positive energy.
 
I am not sure it is an incredible simple question. Wheeler did formulate something equivalent to the idea contained in your question. For more details check the book "Gravitation" (a reference). -I don't remember exactly the page-
 
Pronoein said:
Hello, this is an incredible simple question but I couldn't find an answer by myself.

Is there a theory where gravity is a pressure and particles of matter low-pressure areas? (the pressure field could come from the overwhelming presence of a matter-repelling dark matter).

Yes, but that doesn't make any such theory a serious contender.
 
Phrak said:
Yes, but that doesn't make any such theory a serious contender.

Equation of state for vacuum: pressure + volumetric density of matter = 0. The only serious remaining question: does the vacuum gravitate? Since matter does... and since, in vacuum, volumetric density of matter and pressure seems to be the same (up to a minus sign) ...
 
Such models are generally grouped under the umbrella term 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeSage_gravity" ', and are not considered a viable alternative to Newtonian gravity (not to mention being flat out inconsistent with general relativity).
 
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S.Daedalus said:
Such models are generally grouped under the umbrella term 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeSage_gravity" ', and are not considered a viable alternative to Newtonian gravity (not to mention being flat out inconsistent with general relativity).

How do you then explain the observed acceleration (expansion) of our universe?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S.Daedalus said:
Such models are generally grouped under the umbrella term 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeSage_gravity" ', and are not considered a viable alternative to Newtonian gravity (not to mention being flat out inconsistent with general relativity).

So it has a name and even a wiki page. I was wondering about that, thanks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you for your answers. The Lesage theory is interesting.
I understand that the theory of gravity as a mechanical negative pressure would be more or less this way (in lay terms, sorry!):
1. There is a constant multidirectional shower of particles which creates a constant pressure.
2. Matter is opaque to these particles and create a multidirectional shadow.
3. Two overlapping shadows create a straight path of lowest pressure between the centers of the matter particles.
4. Particles of matter are then pushed towards and along these geodesics, and thus seem reciprocally attracted.
 
  • #10
Blackforest said:
Equation of state for vacuum: pressure + volumetric density of matter = 0. The only serious remaining question: does the vacuum gravitate? Since matter does... and since, in vacuum, volumetric density of matter and pressure seems to be the same (up to a minus sign) ...
Are those facts true? Volumetric density of matter and pressure are in equilibrium in vacuum? Is it correct to say that in this case gravity is expressed as a negative pressure?
 
  • #11
As pointed out above, LeSage gravity is inconsistent with observations.
 

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