Is Gravity Caused by the Motion of Particles in the Fabric of Space?

[Nigel]

Originally posted by yogi
Huesdens - it isn't really necessary to involve the early universe in the mathematics of Nigel - simply consider the present state of the universe as a spherically symmetrical expansion - take the volume and differentiate twice - this gives you the volumetric acceleration (8piRc^2) - then make a volume to surface transformation using the divergence theorem (this simplifies to dividing by 4piR^2 for a sphere) - so the effective isotropic acceleration is 2c^2/R - from here you can get to Nigels result. Note that Nigels formulation predicts that G varies with time - When I first arrived at this result some years ago it bothered me because the experiments show G to be constant - but the problem is that all the experiments are measuring the MG product - not G alone - that is they measure orbital consistency of satellites over a period of years.

OK, Yogi. Found this on page 18. My proof of the cause of gravity is shielding of space pressure. Your mathematical procedure does not elucidate the mechanism of the cause of gravity! Mathematical games without understanding is not science!

 

[r637h]

My understanding is that we cannot "see" back to events beyond the uniform cosmic background in that it represents the "Big Bang" itself.

The background is uniform, but not *totally* uniform. Is that just statistical variation or does it represent the limit of sensitivity of the measurement itself; or is it *true* uniformity?

If there is *some* non-uniformity, does that give us any further clues as to the nature of its origin?

Thanks, Rudi

Mark Twain on Common Sense: "Any fool can tell the World is flat just by looking at it!"

 

[r637h]

Regarding models of the Universe: Do I understand correctly that if Friedman's q=0, then all Universes are closed?

Thanks, Rudi

"Don't confuse me with Logic" --several authors.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by r637h
My understanding is that we cannot "see" back to events beyond the uniform cosmic background in that it represents the "Big Bang" itself.

The background is uniform, but not *totally* uniform. Is that just statistical variation or does it represent the limit of sensitivity of the measurement itself; or is it *true* uniformity?

If there is *some* non-uniformity, does that give us any further clues as to the nature of its origin?

Thanks, Rudi

Mark Twain on Common Sense: "Any fool can tell the World is flat just by looking at it!"

The cosmic background is a 2.734 K blackbody spectrum, which the cosmic background explorer (COBE) satellite surveyed over a decade ago, finding variations which a NASA official called "the face of God". They know how to do their marketing, but not their science.

It eventually turned out that the ripples which were supposed to indicate the variations from which galaxy superclusters etc grew from (like seeds), do not statistically correspond to the large scale observed structure of the universe. Instead of doing something more useful, they are now hoping to repeat the attempt with a higher-resolution instrument.

Good luck to them. What pains me, though, is that fundamental questions like "what causes gravity" are not just ignored by big-time, big-budget, world publicised science, but they are also ridiculed and dismissed by the taxpayers-money-squandering speculators. Let's get science straight in theory, then we'll know what the devil to spend all that money on experimentally!

 

[yogi]

r637 - in answer to your question re the lookback time - we can see theoretically to the decoupling era - that was the time when the universe became visible so to speak - and it corresponded with inception of the cosmic background radiation - it is not the proverbeal "big bang" but a later era.

Nigel - you are confusing two different aspects of gravity - one is the prediction that gravity affects both space and time as per Einstein - that led to a doubling of the light bending by the Sun - 1/2 due to spatial distortion -- 1/2 due to temporal distortion - this has nothing to do with the rate at which the universe is expanding and how fast it is slowing or maybe accelerating - that is consequence to the particular global model we are using - Einstien developed his theory first - then Friedmann came alone and applied these principles to a mechanical model in which the actual rate of expansion and its change was uncertain (i.e., the deceleration parameter was left as a coefficient to be determined by experiment)... it was not determined by the result of the eclipse.

Nigel - the reason you are never going to get anyone who has a credible background to take your idea seriously is because it is not a proof - it is an idea, a concept ... but it is not founded upon anything new. It is exactly the same result you get when you subsitute q = 1 in the Friedmann formulation - WE don't have a perfect model of the universe - we don't know if there is missing mass, dark matter, repulsive space - Machos, wimps, zero point energy, we don't know why matter exhibits inertia, and a lot of other things -

Now I happen to agree that gravity is global and caused by expansion - but neither you nor I nor anyone else can say with certainty what the effective density of the vacuum is, or what the average density of matter is - or whether the cosmos is slowing or constant or accelerating -- yor ideas are conjecture not proof - if you knew a little more about science and mathematics you would use more guarded language.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by yogi
r637 - in answer to your question re the lookback time - we can see theoretically to the decoupling era - that was the time when the universe became visible so to speak - and it corresponded with inception of the cosmic background radiation - it is not the proverbeal "big bang" but a later era.

Nigel - you are confusing two different aspects of gravity - one is the prediction that gravity affects both space and time as per Einstein - that led to a doubling of the light bending by the Sun - 1/2 due to spatial distortion -- 1/2 due to temporal distortion - this has nothing to do with the rate at which the universe is expanding and how fast it is slowing or maybe accelerating - that is consequence to the particular global model we are using - Einstien developed his theory first - then Friedmann came alone and applied these principles to a mechanical model in which the actual rate of expansion and its change was uncertain (i.e., the deceleration parameter was left as a coefficient to be determined by experiment)... it was not determined by the result of the eclipse.

Nigel - the reason you are never going to get anyone who has a credible background to take your idea seriously is because it is not a proof - it is an idea, a concept ... but it is not founded upon anything new. It is exactly the same result you get when you subsitute q = 1 in the Friedmann formulation - WE don't have a perfect model of the universe - we don't know if there is missing mass, dark matter, repulsive space - Machos, wimps, zero point energy, we don't know why matter exhibits inertia, and a lot of other things -

Now I happen to agree that gravity is global and caused by expansion - but neither you nor I nor anyone else can say with certainty what the effective density of the vacuum is, or what the average density of matter is - or whether the cosmos is slowing or constant or accelerating -- yor ideas are conjecture not proof - if you knew a little more about science and mathematics you would use more guarded language.

Ouch! Yogi you bite. But your mathematical techniques without any proven mechanism are pseudo-scientific, like guessing that 1000 dimensions or 26 dimensions or 10 dimensions of space "explains" the universe. Please set up your own trend and see how many acolytes you get, instead of trying to replace a proven CAUSE with more mathematical trash. THANK YOU AND GOOD DAY.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by Nigel
Ouch! Yogi you bite. But your mathematical techniques without any proven mechanism are pseudo-scientific, like guessing that 1000 dimensions or 26 dimensions or 10 dimensions of space "explains" the universe. Please set up your own trend and see how many acolytes you get, instead of trying to replace a proven CAUSE with more mathematical trash. THANK YOU AND GOOD DAY.

Also Yogi, you are the one confused by your own gibberish maths. You are the one needing the proof. I suggest you work through my cause mechanism and see how much hard work is needed to get something scientific sorted out. This is quite different from the trash guesswork which gets idiots famous for "multiple universe" speculation and guessed "laws" without explanation. I have added some notes on this to my web page. Nigel

 

[r637h]

I realize that we're not seeing back to the "Big Bang", but I think it is agreed that the cosmic background is the best evidentiary representation of its occurrence.

I'm just wondering if the miniscule non-uniformity is real (#1) and is it significant (#2) if so?

But back to Gravity: I absolutely agree that research and study of Gravity hyas really been short-changed.

It's amazing when one considers the breath-taking vistas that would be opened if gravitons or gravitational waves could be demonstrated and characterized.

I imagine you all have read of the Berckley experiment concerning the bending of light by Jupiter masking a quasar(pulsar?) in and attempt to confirm the speed of Gravity. They are still contending over the results.

Unfortunately, I can just barely keep up with my own field: The torrent of information in my work is overwhelming. I want to lend whatever encouragement I can to the interests of others, however.

Thanks, Rudi

"Remember, if buttered toast were lashed buttered side-up to a cats' back and they were tossed into mid-air, they would remain suspended; totally defeating the Laws of Gravity." - Isaac Newton, 1721

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by r637h
I realize that we're not seeing back to the "Big Bang", but I think it is agreed that the cosmic background is the best evidentiary representation of its occurrence.

I'm just wondering if the miniscule non-uniformity is real (#1) and is it significant (#2) if so?

But back to Gravity: I absolutely agree that research and study of Gravity hyas really been short-changed.

It's amazing when one considers the breath-taking vistas that would be opened if gravitons or gravitational waves could be demonstrated and characterized.

I imagine you all have read of the Berckley experiment concerning the bending of light by Jupiter masking a quasar(pulsar?) in and attempt to confirm the speed of Gravity. They are still contending over the results.

Unfortunately, I can just barely keep up with my own field: The torrent of information in my work is overwhelming. I want to lend whatever encouragement I can to the interests of others, however.

Thanks, Rudi

"Remember, if buttered toast were lashed buttered side-up to a cats' back and they were tossed into mid-air, they would remain suspended; totally defeating the Laws of Gravity." - Isaac Newton, 1721

The non-conformity is allegedly real, but observations made with a single satellite can be disputed. The last report on the speed of gravity that I saw, about a month ago, found that it is indeed the speed of light.

Gravitons appear to be are false; the nature of gravity does not accord with that of the weak nuclear (nucleon binding), strong nuclear (nuclei binding), or electromagnetic force "particle" theories. If there are "gravitons" they would need to be indistinguishable from the fabric of space, according to Einstein's general relativity, and as Einstein pointed out, that is a continuum. The space pressure is that of a continuum indistinguishable from the dielectric of free space in electromagnetic theory, which has a fixed impedance of 377 ohms. There is no attenuation of a particle with distance (no resistance in ohms/metre, just a fixed impedance in ohms), which is inconsistent with a graviton-composed space. As Feynman states particulate space appears to have its problems, such as drag which would slow down objects. A continuum only resists the changes in velocity which either set up or stop a wave around the moving mass/energy, because it does not contain particles to continuously collide and dissipate energy.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by yogi

Nigel - ... but it is not founded upon anything new. It is exactly the same result you get when you subsitute q = 1 in the Friedmann formulation - WE don't have a perfect model of the universe - we don't know if there is missing mass, dark matter, repulsive space - Machos, wimps, zero point energy, we don't know why matter exhibits inertia, and a lot of other things -

Now I happen to agree that gravity is global and caused by expansion - but neither you nor I nor anyone else can say with certainty what the effective density of the vacuum is, or what the average density of matter is - or whether the cosmos is slowing or constant or accelerating -- yor ideas are conjecture not proof - if you knew a little more about science and mathematics you would use more guarded language. [/B]

Yogi - Fridemann let's you get any result by using different constants like k. Einstein had the cosmological constant to force fit a static universe model to reality. If you find that you can get the same result as my proof gives, or more likely, exactly HALF the result, then you are not dealing with a scientific prediction. My approach is entirely different from yours. It PROVES CAUSES STEP BY STEP, based on Ivor Catt's electromagnetism experimental work, as I have stated on my site at http://members.lycos.co.uk/nigelbryancook/

As for the density contributed by different particles, I CAN and DO predict that the density in total is three quarters of the square of Hubble's constant divided into the product of pi and the universal gravitational constant. This is being tested now by researchers. The density of the universe contributed by neutrinos and dark matter, etc., can be worked out from the gravitational effects like the rotation rates of the arms of spiral galaxies.

Now, Yogi, instead of rejecting my proof, you are welcome to rewrite it as you see best, and submit it either by yourself or with me as a coauthor to a journal. Then we will see if your approach works! This is a serious offer, although I doubt that you will take it up.

 

[yogi]

Nigel - I am totally sympathetic to your plight re getting something new to be considered by the establishment - and as I have said, I concur in your conclusion that gravity is not due to particles, gravitons and the like - and I further agree that some of the wild theories that are thrown out like multiple universes are preposterous and how some of these so called theorists get their ideas published and taken seriously is beyond me. Ten years ago when i first derived some equations similar to yours I ran into the same wall of obstinacy - and like you have a pile of rejections from the authorities ... for reasons that have nothing to do with the merits of the theory - only that "it can't be that simple" or "the only way you can get to gravity is through group theory, or it doesn't comply with Weinbergs view, so we are not interested etc etc -- so rather than be frustrated by trying to convince others in the merits, I have simply resolved to do my work in private as a hobby - make my mistakes in private, and my amendments likewise - that way I don't get upset when I am unable to convince the so called authorities that they should look at what works (gives a value for G based upon a physical reason) , Your theory also accomplishes that objective - but as I have said, I cannot agree that it is a proof - the proof is in the eating and to me that means that you must be able to substitute the value of the critical density cosmos in the equation and the best value of H and calculate a numerical value for G. More importantly, the mathematical procedures must be at least rigorous enough to survive collateral attack. I first came across your website before you posted to these boards - the result conformed to some of my earlier equations, but I had difficulty with the approach (double differentiate Hubble's law treating H as constant but in reality H is not a constant by definition - when you treat H as a variable - you get a different result for G. But my most serious concern was in the conclusion that matter acts as some sort of a shield vis a vis the Hubble acceleration. I will review your website again to see if I can better understand what you claim to be a step by step proof

 

[yogi]

O yes - now I recall more of what I originally read - you have argued that your proposed mechanism produces an acceleration of g on Earth and therefore, if there where any other contender for a theory - it would means g would be greater by what the contender added - Nigel - there is a serious flaw to this type of logic - you have made a hole lot of assumptions such as the fact that the out going galaxies leave behind a spatial void that must be filled by incoming space - first of all the amount of particle matter is so small compared to the amount of space in the void - the spatial inflow due to this is insignificant - moreover, all conventional interpretations of expanding space is that the stars are not moving outward relative to space, but rather the whole of space is expanding and the stars are just getting carried along - in this sense space appears to simply be stretching as would be the case if you put dots on an inflating balloon - the dots don't move with respect to space - they are just carried along - so there is no inflow - and as far as local effects go - we see local galaxies converging not being pulled apart - you have to get out to near the Virgo cluster before there is significant expansion -- anyway - all these assumptions corrupt what you assert top be a proof - if the postulates fail - the theory fails - I have just mentioned a few of the problems - but your premises are in conflict with all of the generally accepted models of expansion - beginning with Friedmann - so they don't lead to a g factor on Earth and therefore you cannot bootstrap yourself up to a statement that since my theory makes gravity - there is no room for a rival theory. Sorry to be so harsh - but that's the way it is

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by yogi
O yes - now I recall more of what I originally read - you have argued that your proposed mechanism produces an acceleration of g on Earth and therefore, if there where any other contender for a theory - it would means g would be greater by what the contender added - Nigel - there is a serious flaw to this type of logic - you have made a hole lot of assumptions such as the fact that the out going galaxies leave behind a spatial void that must be filled by incoming space - first of all the amount of particle matter is so small compared to the amount of space in the void - the spatial inflow due to this is insignificant - moreover, all conventional interpretations of expanding space is that the stars are not moving outward relative to space, but rather the whole of space is expanding and the stars are just getting carried along - in this sense space appears to simply be stretching as would be the case if you put dots on an inflating balloon - the dots don't move with respect to space - they are just carried along - so there is no inflow - and as far as local effects go - we see local galaxies converging not being pulled apart - you have to get out to near the Virgo cluster before there is significant expansion -- anyway - all these assumptions corrupt what you assert top be a proof - if the postulates fail - the theory fails - I have just mentioned a few of the problems - but your premises are in conflict with all of the generally accepted models of expansion - beginning with Friedmann - so they don't lead to a g factor on Earth and therefore you cannot bootstrap yourself up to a statement that since my theory makes gravity - there is no room for a rival theory. Sorry to be so harsh - but that's the way it is

Yogi - please punctuate! Better still, if you object to any of the 16 steps in the mathematical proof, point them out. I presume that you do not object to the formula for the area of a circle, so presumably the things which you disagree with are connected to the particle-wave duality in the fabric of space.

The mention the inflating balloon analogy above. This was used to demonstrate the early idea of an infinite, expanding universe. In the big bang, absolute motion occurs, as witnessed by the +/- 3 millikKelvin cosine variation in the cosmic background radiation (the observed temperature is highest in the direction of the Earth's absolute motion, and coolest 180 degrees from that direction). An article on the Scientific American in 1978 by the discoverer of this was entitled "The New Aether Drift".

When you multiply the 400 km/s or so absolute motion of the Milky Way by the age of the universe, you find that it has traveled about 0.3 % of the radius of the universe since the big bang, assuming that the motion has been constant. Of course, some people reject Occam's Razor, and always prefer a more complex, less intelligible interpretation, such as the suggestion that there is a "great attractor" which causes the effect.

Just to acquaint you to the differing interpretations of the fabric of space, the Michelson-Morley experiment, and the reason for "wave-particle duality" in quantum mechanics (the flow of space around INDIVIDUAL SUBATOMIC PARTICLES AS THEY MOVE, giving the cause of gravity as in my model), here are a couple of quotations from Eddington, the man who VERIFIED Einstein's general relativity in 1919:

‘The Michelson-Morley experiment has thus failed to detect our motion through the aether, because the effect looked for – the delay of one of the light waves – is exactly compensated by an automatic contraction of the matter forming the apparatus.’ – Professor A.S. Eddington, MA, MSc, FRS (Plumian Professor of Astronomy and Experimental Philosophy, Cambridge), Space Time and Gravitation: An Outline of the General Relativity Theory, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1921, p. 20.

‘The idealised physical reference object, which is implied in current quantum theory, is a fluid permeating all space like an aether.’ – Sir Arthur Eddington, MA, DSc, LLD, FRS, Relativity Theory of Protons and Electrons, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1936, p. 180.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by yogi
Nigel - I am totally sympathetic ... my most serious concern was in the conclusion that matter acts as some sort of a shield vis a vis the Hubble acceleration. I will review your website again to see if I can better understand what you claim to be a step by step proof

Take a cup of tea, and stir it to produce some bubbles. If you watch the bubbles, they "attract" together, accelerating towards one another, and join up. The same can be produced in a sink with washing up liquid. Obviously these are surface bubbles, indenting the surface of the liquid. You can say that either they indent the fabric of the medium (water), causing curvature and giving an impressive tensor equation, or you cut through the gibberish and say that they shield one another from the water pressure, and thus are pushed together by the water pressure on the unshielded sides.

The same applies to gravity, although a better analogy is to have bubbles underwater. You find that in a glass of beer the bubbles stay against the sides, because they are being pressed by fluid pressure in the beer on all sides except that of the glass, which is rigid and therefore shields the bubbles. Hence, the bubbles are pressed against the glass, keeping them there.

Shielding is a useful concept. Again, if you want to try to "improve" my theory to make it acceptable to yourself, go ahead. If you want me a co-author, let me know. I have faith that human progress sooner or later triumphs over misguided authority and intolerance. It is a bit like climbing a mountain, a lot of people start by saying that you're an egotist or eccentric, but eventually intolerance dies out. If you want to, try translating the pressure formulation into vector calculus. The editors of journals prefer the most obscure mathematics over simplicity, because fewer people can understand it!

 

[Brad_Ad23]

But don't the bubbles move together because of the stirring? You essentially create a vortex and the bubbles will spiral together. If we have a stationary liquid, the bubbles will not move together.


edit:
yes, that is a better analogy for shielding (bubbles on the side of the glass).

Still, I wonder if that is really a good example, its more of a boundary condition, since the 'spacetime beer' ends at that point. I'd be more interested in why the bubbles don't attract each other inside the beer away from the glass.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by Brad_Ad23
But don't the bubbles move together because of the stirring? You essentially create a vortex and the bubbles will spiral together. If we have a stationary liquid, the bubbles will not move together.


edit:
yes, that is a better analogy for shielding (bubbles on the side of the glass).

Still, I wonder if that is really a good example, its more of a boundary condition, since the 'spacetime beer' ends at that point. I'd be more interested in why the bubbles don't attract each other inside the beer away from the glass.

Do the experiment! The even when the stirring has died down, lone bubbles accelerate to clumps of other bubbles or to the rigid sides.

Bubbles that are not pressed against the sides of the glass cannot stick, and rise too quickly by buoyancy.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Nigel
Do the experiment! The even when the stirring has died down, lone bubbles accelerate to clumps of other bubbles or to the rigid sides.

Bubbles that are not pressed against the sides of the glass cannot stick, and rise too quickly by buoyancy.

So, my idea that pressure causes friction and thusly static electricity and, at great volume or magnitude could conceivably cause electromagnetic forces that we may mistakenly identify as "gravity" does not hold up, under water... since any presence of static electricty underwater is not likely to happen. Yet, your model involving the underwater pressure and the action of the bubbles seems to hold true and well with that of the pressures of the fabric of "space" and those collections of "matter" we call planets.

I wonder, though, how related these two mediums really are. For instance, water is a collection of molecules. Space is, at best, a collection of radiation... and vacuum... plus trace bits.

 

[pelastration]

the origin of the shields

Nigel,

can you tell us something more about the origin or concept of the shields. Please explain the mechanism behind.

Thanks.

 

[The Grimmus]

ok i just read soem of what you siad and whoa. but how would u exsplain anti-gravity?

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
So, my idea that pressure causes friction and thusly static electricity and, at great volume or magnitude could conceivably cause electromagnetic forces that we may mistakenly identify as "gravity" does not hold up, under water... since any presence of static electricty underwater is not likely to happen. Yet, your model involving the underwater pressure and the action of the bubbles seems to hold true and well with that of the pressures of the fabric of "space" and those collections of "matter" we call planets.

I wonder, though, how related these two mediums really are. For instance, water is a collection of molecules. Space is, at best, a collection of radiation... and vacuum... plus trace bits.

Well, water is not like sand, because in water there is hydrogen bonding that holds the molecules together into a whole to a certain extent. If you move something in water slowly, the drag forces are insignificant, and the resistance is just like an extra inertial mass.

Suppose you have a 1 cubic metre object under water. At very low speeds, its extra inertial mass would be equivalent to 1 ton of matter, because you have to move 1 ton of water out of its way to move it. (1 cubic metre of water = 1 ton.)

This is resistance to acceleration, just like inertia in a vacuum. The total equivalent inertial mass of an object underwater is therefore equal to its ordinary mass, plus the product of the density of water and its volume, i.e., effective inertial mass under water = M + V tons, where M is its normal mass in tons and V is its volume in cubic metres. [Obviously you also get a continuous drag at high speeds in water due to water molecules hitting surfaces with energy, where the speed is high enough to break up the hydrogen bonding forces (surface tension effect), and dissipate energy.]

But at very low speeds, water will approximate to a continuum far better than air, because in water the molecules bind to one another to some degree. Going in the other direction, water provides a crude analogy to the nature of the vacuum, explaining inertia in empty space as the resistance to acceleration, as space is forced to flow around subatomic particles as literally "waves in space." These tiny waves will naturally have a wavelength dependent on the speed of the particles responsible, just as de Broglie's wave equation states!

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by pelastration
Nigel,

can you tell us something more about the origin or concept of the shields. Please explain the mechanism behind.

Thanks.

If you have one particle in a fluid, it will constitute a small inertial shield, by virtue of having mass. In order to transmit fluid pressure, it must be pushed in one direction. It cannot be pushed in one direction if the pressure is equal on all sides, because the pushes from opposite sides then cancel out.

Hence, it acts as a "shield" if there is another particle present. The two particles then shield one another along the line joining them. You can use any fancy maths you like, but the principle stands.

Ivor Catt, on whose electromagnetic theory I started my research, prefers to deal just with electromagnetic energy, instead of mass. Thus, he can use E=mc^2, and treat the dielectric as an equivalent energy field instead of being an equivalent to a continuum of mass. Mass and energy being equivalent at the fundamental particle level, it is just a matter of convention.

Personally, I find it easier to deal with the analogy of water as the fabric of space, instead of the analogy of an all-round continuous (not oscillating!) electromagnetic energy field. But there is absolutely no difference.

Except that to talk of energy fields makes it sound more difficult to understand to many people, who confuse the continuous electromagnetic energy with radio waves. So I prefer to calculate gravity using the simple space pressure concept.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Nigel
Well, water is not like sand, because in water there is hydrogen bonding that holds the molecules together into a whole to a certain extent. If you move something in water slowly, the drag forces are insignificant, and the resistance is just like an extra inertial mass.

Suppose you have a 1 cubic metre object under water. At very low speeds, its extra inertial mass would be equivalent to 1 ton of matter, because you have to move 1 ton of water out of its way to move it. (1 cubic metre of water = 1 ton.)

This is resistance to acceleration, just like inertia in a vacuum. The total equivalent inertial mass of an object underwater is therefore equal to its ordinary mass, plus the product of the density of water and its volume, i.e., effective inertial mass under water = M + V tons, where M is its normal mass in tons and V is its volume in cubic metres. [Obviously you also get a continuous drag at high speeds in water due to water molecules hitting surfaces with energy, where the speed is high enough to break up the hydrogen bonding forces (surface tension effect), and dissipate energy.]

But at very low speeds, water will approximate to a continuum far better than air, because in water the molecules bind to one another to some degree. Going in the other direction, water provides a crude analogy to the nature of the vacuum, explaining inertia in empty space as the resistance to acceleration, as space is forced to flow around subatomic particles as literally "waves in space." These tiny waves will naturally have a wavelength dependent on the speed of the particles responsible, just as de Broglie's wave equation states!

thanks Nig...

You say " (just)as space is forced to flow around subatomic particles as literally "waves in space."

How is it that space makes up these waves rather than the subatomicparticles (or even photon field... or graviton field)?

Is this a similar idea as seen with electricity where the space between the electrons flowing along a conductor are as much a part of the current as are the electrons?

PS. its odd to think of space "flowing" when it has no actual content. Can you help to clarify this?

Thank you.

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
thanks Nig...

You say " (just)as space is forced to flow around subatomic particles as literally "waves in space."

How is it that space makes up these waves rather than the subatomicparticles (or even photon field... or graviton field)?

Is this a similar idea as seen with electricity where the space between the electrons flowing along a conductor are as much a part of the current as are the electrons?

PS. its odd to think of space "flowing" when it has no actual content. Can you help to clarify this?

Thank you.

Space has impedance 377 ohms (dielectric of free space), a magnetic permeability, an electric permittivity, carries a characteristic velocity of c, etc.

Are you so sure that it makes sense to say "it has no content"??

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Nigel
Space has impedance 377 ohms (dielectric of free space), a magnetic permeability, an electric permittivity, carries a characteristic velocity of c, etc.

Are you so sure that it makes sense to say "it has no content"??

Say what!?

Well, actually, the layman's (note: me) understanding of space is that it is empty. When there are other elements introduced to space... the space allows them to move and wave and whatever. Its like throwing flour into the wind in order to see the wind.

I realize space is a good medium for all of the above impedances, ohms and permeabilities... but... in its purest form... say, in an absolute vacuum... will space still act in a wave-like format? Or... does it require content to appear as a wave or part of a wave?

For instance... consider this: Let's disregard physics and the fact that space is a product of the big bang or whatever people think is going on.

Let's imagine there is no radiation, no background radiation... no matter and no anything else... except for us.. the observers.

Lets just say there is only space... and that's all (plus us the observers). (Now, please bear with me as I ask another question... thanks):)

Would we observe, in this case, waves in this "empty" space?

 

[Nigel]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
Say what!?

Well, actually, the layman's (note: me) understanding of space is that it is empty. When there are other elements introduced to space... the space allows them to move and wave and whatever. Its like throwing flour into the wind in order to see the wind.

I realize space is a good medium for all of the above impedances, ohms and permeabilities... but... in its purest form... say, in an absolute vacuum... will space still act in a wave-like format? Or... does it require content to appear as a wave or part of a wave?

For instance... consider this: Let's disregard physics and the fact that space is a product of the big bang or whatever people think is going on.

Let's imagine there is no radiation, no background radiation... no matter and no anything else... except for us.. the observers.

Lets just say there is only space... and that's all (plus us the observers). (Now, please bear with me as I ask another question... thanks):)

Would we observe, in this case, waves in this "empty" space?

In response to your question, I've added another animated gif to my webpage, containing a sequence of photos from a video camera of bubbles attracting in water. http://members.lycos.co.uk/nigelbryancook/

Think about a fish. Does a fish realize that it is in water? A flying fish perhaps, because it sees a contrast with air. But normally to a fish the properties of water are not separated from the properties of space. If you try to go at an infinite speed, say sending a charged particle round an accelerator with plenty of power, you hit a snag: you can't get it to continuously increase in speed with energy. The speed of light acts as a barrier. You can say that the inertial mass of the particle becomes larger, or you say say that space physically becomes a problem. Mathematically, you can do either. But it is useful to see space as a physical medium when dealing with what happens when magnets in a vacuum attract and repel, etc. The same applies to gravity.

If there is only physical space, with nothing moving in it, there would not be any waves to observe. However, the electrons and nuclear particles in the observers would be creating little waves in space.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Nigel
In response to your question, I've added another animated gif to my webpage, containing a sequence of photos from a video camera of bubbles attracting in water. http://members.lycos.co.uk/nigelbryancook/

Think about a fish. Does a fish realize that it is in water? A flying fish perhaps, because it sees a contrast with air. But normally to a fish the properties of water are not separated from the properties of space. If you try to go at an infinite speed, say sending a charged particle round an accelerator with plenty of power, you hit a snag: you can't get it to continuously increase in speed with energy. The speed of light acts as a barrier. You can say that the inertial mass of the particle becomes larger, or you say say that space physically becomes a problem. Mathematically, you can do either. But it is useful to see space as a physical medium when dealing with what happens when magnets in a vacuum attract and repel, etc. The same applies to gravity.

If there is only physical space, with nothing moving in it, there would not be any waves to observe. However, the electrons and nuclear particles in the observers would be creating little waves in space.

I see, sort of, now. Space is a physical medium. What else is going to carry magnetic disturbances or particles etc? Where else are we going to put the water, fish, air etc...?

In fact... I can almost see space doing a wave-like action when space is displaced by matter... or plazma... or emfs etc... so that... when the space is displaced... there may even be a wave created in leu of an expansion and accomodation of the matter.

What is constraining the particle traveling at "c" in the cyclotron, linear accelerator or in space? Is it that space causes an impedence or is it that matter cannot hold together at c? Is that an old question?

Your theory of gravity seems to me to rely on a universe that is being held by surface tension. The contents create a pressure that acts on matter that has conjealed out of the original light/radiation of the BB.

The surface tension that holds the space and matter of the universe would... by some accounts... be caused by tension between a "void" and the physical universe.

Does this figure?

(Thanks again, by the by)

 

[subtillioN]

This is from another thread, but I thought it was appropriate here:

My comment is a vast simplification of the mechanism of gravity from a new unified field theory called Sorce Theory. It is more of a deeper level substrate reconstruction than a "gap bridging", but it does accomplish the same function and much more. I will skim across the details of the theory in a second, but first a little background. [More information can be found at this link as well: www.anpheon.org]

--------

“What is this quantum vacuum”?—

The new conception of the "quantum vacuum" is that it is mathematically equivalent to a zero-energy superfluid. Take for instance this quote from G.E. Volovik in “The Universe in a Helium Droplet”.

“According to the modern view the elementary particles (electrons, neutrinos, quarks, etc.) are excitations of some more fundamental medium called the quantum vacuum. This is the new ether of the 21st century. The electromagnetic and gravitational fields, as well as the fields transferring the weak and the strong interactions, all represent different types of collective motion of the quantum vacuum.
“Among the existing condensed matter systems, the particular quantum liquid—superfluid 3He-A—most closely resembles the quantum vacuum of the Standard Model. This is the collection of 3He atoms condensed into the liquid state like water. But as distinct from water, the behavior of this liquid is determined by the quantum mechanical zero-point motion of atoms. Due to the large amplitude of this motion the liquid does not solidify even at zero temperature.”

Sorce Theory asserts that this "quantum Vacuum" is a real material fluid which is continuous, compressible and fluid-dynamic. The theory demonstrates how all the dynamics of a basic level superfluid such as, quantized meta-stable vortices, solitons, breathers, transverse wave propagation and harmonic resonances, frictionless rotation and translation of embedded particles and objects (dynamics indistinguishable from that of the observed vacuum)-- can form the quantized shell structure of the atom, the structure of the solar-system, the mechanisms of chemical-molecular bonds, all the forces of nature and the dynamics of physical reality. All the forces become understandable as a product of a single continuous fluid-dynamic pressure in dynamic configurations of harmonically equilibrated wave systems in various forms of interaction with each other.



Ok to answer your questions...

“how does matter wave refraction create the gravitational field?”

The “matter-wave” refractions of the atom do not create the g-field. They are a response to it—-a force. They are a refractive response to the permeating density gradient (a gravitational field) in the zero-energy superfluid which is oxymoronically called the “quantum vacuum”. This density gradient permeates the intrinsic harmonically equilibrated wave-systems of the atoms and skews the internal paths of the wave-systems toward the increasing density of the gradient. The atom equilibrates in the direction of the refraction of its internal wave systems. This is called the force of gravity.

I hope this cursory explanation helps.

 

[yogi]

Your Sorce theory does not simplify anything - it attempts to assert magical relationships between unassociated phenomena - it is non predictive - the theory posted by Nigel at least makes predictions - e.g., the numerical value of G ... and he offers an explanation for why G depends upon the velocity of light and the rate of expansion. If the value of H and the energy density of space were precisely known, these numbers could be plugged into Nigels formula to test whether the equation is correct -- As i have said previously, the result may be off by a factor of 2 - In any event, the issue is Whether Nigels explanations of the physical interactions are correct - for example - how does one transform the mechanical properties of space to a 377 ohm electrical impedance that Nigel claims to be a pressure -

The situation is much like GR - Einstein had part of the answer in the Reinman metric - this, the left side of the equation, he referred to as fine marble - but he had to hypothesize what caused the curvature - so on the right side he threw in everything that had mass energy and postulated this as the cause - but it was incomplete - he could not explain why static matter could curve static space - and to this day - neither can anyone else - this was Einstein's great concern - Nigel has an equation for a dynamic - he has proffered solutions - but they are conclusionary - incomplete at the very point where funtionality is needed

 

[subtillioN]

Originally posted by yogi
Your Sorce theory does not simplify anything -

Sorry but I know for a fact that you do not know Sorce Theory. Please reserve your criticisms for when you actually have something relevant to say. Unless you just want to blow smoke out your ...

Everything in the rest of your post proves that you don't know what you are talking about wrt Sorce Theory.

Do you often make judgements based in ignorance?

 

[subtillioN]

Originally posted by yogi
the theory posted by Nigel at least makes predictions - e.g., the numerical value of G ... and he offers an explanation for why G depends upon the velocity of light and the rate of expansion. If the value of H and the energy density of space were precisely known, these numbers could be plugged into Nigels formula to test whether the equation is correct -- As i have said previously, the result may be off by a factor of 2 - In any event, the issue is Whether Nigels explanations of the physical interactions are correct - for example - how does one transform the mechanical properties of space to a 377 ohm electrical impedance that Nigel claims to be a pressure -

Sorce Theory does that and much more. Can Nigels Theory explain the physical mechanism of "Time Dilation"? Can it explain the mechanism of the strong and weak forces? Can it unify ALL the forces as a single fluid-dynamic pressure?

I have read through this thread and it is apparent that this theory is sort of on the right track, but it suffers the same problems as do all the radiant-pressure models of gravitation. The shadow effects do not match the experimental data.

Nigel has a decent theory of gravity but is it a Unified Field Theory? Does it explain the nature of the quantum? Does it explain how the continuous fluid is quantized into the electronic shell structure of the atom? Can it explain the mechanism of Bodes Law which unifies the atomic with the planetary scales of energy, force and structure based on the same fluid-dynamic mechanism?

Sorce Theory is MUCH more complete than you have any idea. It has been around since 1965 and its conclusions and predictions have been tested and verified and are stronger than ever in light of the new experiments in condensed matter physics. The theory contains many large volumes (some of them contain thousands of pages each) of quantitative and qualitative explanations of ALL the mechanisms of physical reality.

There is NOTHING magical about Sorce Theory. It uses simple fluid-dynamics and wave-mechanics in a frictionless continuous medium to explain the nature of all the forces and energy mechanisms in observed physical reality.