Is Gravity Really Linked to Mass or Something More Complex?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gravity and mass, particularly questioning whether gravity is solely a property of invariant mass or if it involves more complex factors. Participants explore theoretical implications, particularly in the context of relativistic speeds and gravitational strength.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that at relativistic speeds, energy put into acceleration increases mass without increasing gravitational strength, leading to the conclusion that gravity may not be a property of mass.
  • Another participant asserts that gravitational strength does increase, challenging the first claim.
  • A different viewpoint posits that if particles could become black holes at high speeds, this complicates the relationship between mass and gravity.
  • One participant references the stress-energy tensor from General Relativity, arguing that gravity is not solely a property of invariant mass and is more complex than a simple scalar relationship.
  • Another participant agrees with the notion that gravity is not a property of matter, suggesting that properties like charge, spin, and mass are distinct from gravitational influence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the relationship between mass and gravitational strength, with some asserting that gravity is linked to invariant mass while others argue for a more complex interaction involving additional factors.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved assumptions about the nature of mass and gravity, particularly in the context of relativistic physics and the implications of the stress-energy tensor.

Denton
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What I've learned is that when going at a fraction of C, the energy put into the acceleration is transferred into mass. However what is strange is that its gravitational strength does not increase. People keep saying that gravity is a property of the invarient mass and that alone.

So then where does that energy go to? For all that is concerned, and increase in mass without an increase in gravity is like adding 1 to infinity. This then means that any mass increase does not increase gravitational strength, thereby concluding that:


A) Gravity is a property of n number of particles, rather than a term of mass (Since then all similar fundimental particles would have similar masses)

or

B) Gravity is not a property of matter.
 
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Gravitational strength does increase.
 
Right, then at sufficiently high speeds particles would become black holes.
 
From the Usenet Physics FAQ:

http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~dkoks/Faq/Relativity/BlackHoles/black_fast.html
 
That wasnt my question...
 
Then what was your question? You started by saying, "However what is strange is that its gravitational strength does not increase. People keep saying that gravity is a property of the invarient mass and that alone."

The two replies both said, essentially, "No, that's not true".

And your only response is, "That wasn't my question"??
 
Denton said:
People keep saying that gravity is a property of the invarient mass and that alone.
In GR gravity is not a property of the invariant mass. Gravitation comes from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress-energy_tensor" . This is a Lorentz tensor, so it is obviously much more complicated than the invariant mass which is just a Lorentz scalar.

Mass alone is the source of gravity for Newtonian physics, but in Newtonian physics it doesn't make much sense to speak of invarient mass.

I would say your B) is correct. Gravity is not a property of matter. Things like charge, spin, and mass are properties of matter.
 
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