Is internal battery "emf" a conservative force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the internal electromotive force (emf) of a battery and whether it can be classified as a conservative force. Participants explore the relationship between the electric force set up by the battery and the energy conversion processes involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the electric/Coulomb force established by a battery is conservative and associated with a potential given by voltage.
  • Others clarify that the "push" force on charges, or internal emf, is distinct from the electrostatic force and is related to the energy-to-charge ratio.
  • One participant argues that the electric field resulting from the chemical reactions within the battery is non-conservative.
  • A later reply confirms the non-conservative nature of the electric field due to chemical reactions and requests further references on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the internal emf is a conservative force, with multiple competing views presented regarding the nature of the forces involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions of conservative forces and the specific mechanisms by which batteries operate, as well as the implications of chemical reactions on electric fields.

STosh9
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First, the electric/Coulomb force set up by a battery across its terminal is conservative, and its potential is given by the well-known V. I also understand the conventional usage of emf is as a voltage potential.

However, a battery does more than just set up the electric field and its associated voltage - it provides electrical energy, by conversion from its chemical energy, to push charges to higher potential. Is this "push" force on charges, or internal emf, a conservative force?
 
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The push force and the electromotive force are not the same thing.
The former is electrostatic force, and the latter is voltage (energy-to-charge ratio).
 
STosh9 said:
Is this "push" force on charges, or internal emf, a conservative force?
No. Electric field due to the chemical reaction in the battery is non-conservative in nature.
 
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cnh1995 said:
No. Electric field due to the chemical reaction in the battery is non-conservative in nature.

Thanks cnh1995 for confirming my suspicion. Would you have any references handy that explains this more?
 

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