Is it realy true that nothing can travel faster than light? if so, why?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether anything can travel faster than the speed of light, exploring concepts from special relativity, hypothetical particles, and the implications of relativistic physics on mass and energy. Participants examine theoretical frameworks, mathematical formulations, and philosophical implications related to the speed of light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that special relativity does not explicitly state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but rather that nothing can start from a speed less than c and reach or exceed c.
  • Hypothetical particles known as tachyons are proposed to travel faster than c, but they cannot slow down to or below c, remaining cut off from interaction with the sub-c universe.
  • One participant presents a mathematical perspective on the work required to accelerate a mass to speed c, noting that as speed approaches c, the energy required approaches infinity, suggesting a limit on acceleration.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the second postulate of relativity implies that all observers measure the speed of light as constant, which raises questions about the nature of speed and acceleration relative to light.
  • A viewpoint is expressed that time dilation means as a particle approaches c, its own time slows down, implying that infinite energy and time may be required to reach c.
  • Discussion includes the idea that a photon does not experience time or distance, as it exists at c, and any deviation from c leads to the experience of time and potential annihilation.
  • One participant challenges the notion of a photon "experiencing time," arguing that without a rest frame, the concept of experience is illusory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the implications of special relativity and the nature of speed, time, and hypothetical particles. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on the interpretations of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference advanced mathematical concepts and theoretical constructs, indicating a reliance on specific definitions and frameworks that may not be universally accepted or understood. The discussion includes speculative elements regarding tachyons and the nature of light and time.

DRMOKADI
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
How do the movement of a particle relate to the speed of light
 
Physics news on Phys.org


Special Relavitiy does not specifically state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. SR does state that nothing can start off at slower than c and reach or exceed c.


Hypothetical particles called tachyons travel faster than c. They cannot slow down to or below c. They are forever cut off from interaction with our sub-c universe.
 


For starters, we can show (see post #15 here) that the work required to accelerate an object of mass m from speed 0 to speed v is [itex](\gamma-1)mc^2[/itex], where

[tex]\gamma=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]

Note that [itex]\gamma\rightarrow\infty[/itex] when [itex]v\rightarrow c[/itex]. This means that there's no amount of work that can accelerate the particle to speed c.

The above is at least a valid way of looking at it, but I wouldn't call this "the reason" why massive particles can't reach c. A better answer is that the combination of special relativity and quantum mechanics severely restricts what types of particles can exist. Any particle must have the property that [tex]E^2-\vec p^2c^2[/tex] is the same in all inertial frames. If this quantity is =0, the particle must always move at c. If it's >0, the particle must always move at speeds <c. (Edit: After reading Dave's post, I think I should add that the third possibility, i.e. that the quantity is <0, corresponds to tachyons. I didn't mention that at first because they aren't believed to exist. They have never been observed, and it's hard to even write down a theory with tachyons in it that doesn't contradict itself). We now define the "mass" of the particle by setting this quantity equal to [itex]m^2c^4[/itex], and choosing m to be positive when it's not zero.

In other words, it's a consequence of the definition of "mass" (and "particle"), and there's no easy way to see why this is so. It requires some fairly advanced mathematics. (Chapter 2 of Weinberg's QFT book covers this pretty well).
 
Last edited:


davec426913 said:
special relavitiy does not specifically state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Sr does state that nothing can start off at slower than c and reach or exceed c.


Hypothetical particles called tachyons travel faster than c. They cannot slow down to or below c. They are forever cut off from interaction with our sub-c universe.
what is it that prevents it to travel faster than c?
 


DRMOKADI said:
what is it that prevents it to travel faster than c?
To summarize Fredrik's post:

As a mass approaches relativistic velocities, its mass increases. This requires more energy to accelerate it further. At a speed arbitrarily close to c, its mass approaches infinity, so the energy requires to accelerate it further approaches infinity.
 


DRMOKADI said:
what is it that prevents it to travel faster than c?

It's kind of built into the postulates of relativity. The second postulate says that all observers measure the speed of light to be the same value. If it were possible for you to gradually accelerate up to the speed of light and then overtake it, you would have to measure the speed of light gradually decreasing to zero, relative to yourself, and then going backwards. That can't happen because you always measure it as constant.

As to why the Universe behaves like this, we can't really say, we just know it does.
 


Would it be correct to say that due to time dilation, as a particle increases in speed towards c then that particle's own time slows.

So given a constant force applied to the particle, the force seen by that particle as it approaches c will reduce to zero and its own time frame of reference approaches.

So it's not so much you need infinite energy (you may do) to accelerate a particle to c, you also need infinite time to do so.

That also implies to me, that a photon of light never experiences time, distance of space it simply starts to exist and in zero (it's own time) time ceases to exist.

A Photon can only exist at c as soon as it deviates from c it experiences time and annialates itself.

A very interesting subject though
 


That also implies to me, that a photon of light never experiences time, distance of space it simply starts to exist and in zero (it's own time) time ceases to exist.

This is correct, except that to speak sensibly of an object "experiencing time" (or "experiencing" anything, for that matter), one needs to be able to refer to the rest frame of the object. A photon, however, has no rest frame. Thus, saying that it "experiences no time" is slightly illusory, as a photon doesn't have a "vantage point" from which to experience things.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K