Is a High-Cost Undergraduate Degree Worth the Debt for Aspiring Scientists?

[huskerwr38]

Taking a year off is really annoying. I remember my brother took a year off from community college and the process to re-admit is annoying. He had to review college algebra because he was going to take trig. I really don't want to fall behind in my studies in physics and trying to practice could be impossible if I was full-time in some restaurant.

Having tens of thousands of dollars of debt is a bit annoying too.

 

[kaos86]

All right everyone. I made my decision thanks to the people in this community. I looked at countless universities and so far I believe the U. of Buffalo is my right choice. Still, I'm looking at more universities and making sure they are a bit cheap in this crappy economy.

 

[lisab]

Having [STRIKE]tens[/STRIKE] hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt is a bit annoying too.

Fixed that . Oh and I agree.

 

[Zhabka]

So, I really must ask, what is the average yearly tuition for students with residency in the state? Looking at the numbers on here my eyes have nearly left my head! In Canada I attend a small undergrad university and pay no more than $6000 tuition for a full course load (not sure what the costs are for out of province/international students). This still seems to be a fraction of the costs for in-state students in the USA. So I really got to ask, what are these US schools offering that costs so much money compared to Canada?

***

Thinking about people borrowing this kind of money so early in their lives (particularly to invest in a career which at best pays little more than 100K a year) seems very troubling. Doesn't this remind anyone of the housing crash?!

If you were to write this up as a business or investment proposal and take it to a bank to request a 200K loan, what do you think they would say? "So you want 200k to invest so that within the next 5 years (minimum) you can expect to make a gross income of 50K a year?"

I suppose the bank might give it too you as they think,"Great! he will be locked in with us forever but still have enough of a steady income to keep up payments!".

***

Hasn't the bubble on these kind of borrowing scheme's been burst? I personally hate borrowing a dime, even if its just a few hundred from my parents when I can't afford food or rent. If I was faced with these kinds of costs for school I would exhaust every other option before fronting that kind of cash.

I find it horrifyingly reckless to make it seem normal for young people to borrow money on this scale.

"Well, we don't think you are responsible enough to be able to buy your own beer yet, but if you need a few hundred grand at 4% interest, don't hesitate to ask."

***

So this makes me wonder, I have only heard about the Open University; never looked much into it yet. Does anyone know is this is a credible place to study that won't put a vacuum to your wallet?

 

[jtbell]

In Canada I attend a small undergrad university and pay no more than $6000 tuition for a full course load (not sure what the costs are for out of province/international students). This still seems to be a fraction of the costs for in-state students in the USA.

The problem here is that nobody wants to pay taxes, and state legislators are scared to raise taxes because they're afraid that they'll be turned out of office at the next election. So in most states, state funding for state-supported colleges and universities has been declining steadily for the past several years. In order to keep going without making brutal cuts in programs, colleges and universities have had to raise tuition and fees correspondingly.

 

[contramundum]

So, I really must ask, what is the average yearly tuition for students with residency in the state?

Around $9,000 US dollars per year for tuition, in-state. Although some states like Michigan cost $13,000 per year, in-state.

 

[wild999711]

So, I really must ask, what is the average yearly tuition for students with residency in the state?

Thought berkeley would be a good example.

http://students.berkeley.edu/finaid/undergraduates/cost.htm

Essentially they add a 23k tuition fee for nonresidents on top of the 12.5k everyone pays. What's surprising is they apparently do the same for grad students.

http://grad.berkeley.edu/admissions/cost_fees.shtml

 

[Jake4]

I only read the first couple pages but I got this from it:

It seems like you know you're going there. This thread has turned into a 'people bring up good points against going there, and you defend it'

UofV is not a groundbreaking-workyourassoff to go to school dude. It seems like you like the atmosphere, and can see yourself there, but practicality needs to come into play.

I commute right now, so it's dumb cheap, but if I was living on campus(meaning BASICALLY all expenses paid) it would be around 12,000 a year. This is a huge university, state school, everything is great about it.

You're going to be 35 years old still paying off your BACHELORS...

I feel like, you're going to do, whatever you're going to do, I don't feel like you're really taking in people's opinions, but I fully agree with the person who said, that is a ridiculous amount of money to be borrowing man. You have no idea where you'll be in 15 or so years, and you have no idea if you'll be in a position to be paying back that much money.


I vote for this being a bad idea, I'm sorry, but practicality wins over most.

 

[Zhabka]

Ha, wow. Well I was reviewing the tuition rates at my university and they are even lower than I thought (and people at my university still complain about them!). For sciences it is roughly $100 Canadian per credit hour (3 credits is a one term course, 24 to 30 credit hours is a full course load for a year). So, books included, you wouldn't be paying more than $4000 per year.

For international students the rates are about 4 times this, so if you come from out of the country it will cost you 12k to 15k per year.

I feel so unbelievably lucky when see what things cost in the USA. How can people say that soon everyone will need a post secondary education in order to find work but then make that education so inaccessible outside of taking on crippling debt when you are still hardly a legal adult? You might as well be burning books.

I know that saying this has gotten old, but that government has to get their priorities straight (not to say Canada's is any gem either).

 

[Ryker]

For international students the rates are about 4 times this, so if you come from out of the country it will cost you 12k to 15k per year.

That's a bit of an underestimation. As an international student I applied to six Canadian universities and tuition fees for a full course load ranged from $CAD 16k - 24.5k.

 

[agm2010]

To the OP:

Why not stop picking out schools that are ridiculously out of your reach? A few weeks ago in another thread I spent quite a bit of my time giving you a rundown of schools in Florida, all of which were deemed "too football oriented" by you. You then proceeded to tell us your plans for applying to Columbia. That's quite the jump from public Florida schools.

You need to sit down and assess what you really want. Then when you find it, make sure it's not highly improbable that you'll be accepted (Columbia), or insanely expensive (U of Vermont). It's fine to apply to these places, but don't put yourself in a position where you'll be trapped if something unexpected happens.

 

[Zhabka]

That's a bit of an underestimation. As an international student I applied to six Canadian universities and tuition fees for a full course load ranged from $CAD 16k - 24.5k.

I was just quoting the tuition rates for my university. It is a small undergrad university so naturally it is a bit cheaper than most.

 

[turbo]

Why not a state land-grant university? There are some real bargains to be had (comparatively). Here's my alma mater.

http://www.umaine.edu/bursar/Tuition_and_Fees.htm

 

[kaos86]

Yeah, don't worry everyone. You convinced me to do more searching. I'm looking at University at Buffalo and other up north universities. U. at Vermont is too damn expensive and I'm not going to risk myself getting into huge debt.

 

[contramundum]

I would recommend checking out the University of Minnesota. Out of state tuition is around $16,000 per year.

 

[MassInertia]

Since you're from Florida there are some things about "up north" that I don't think you fully appreciate. You see, we have this thing called "winter." You speak of wanting to be able to walk or bike everywhere. This is particularly comical since you were considering Burlington, VT, and now are considering Buffalo, NY. Buffalo gets several FEET of snow every winter and often has temperatures below zero Fahrenheit. Believe me, you are going to be in for a rude awakening if you, a native Floridian, think you're going to enjoy walking or (haha!) BIKING around town in the middle of winter.

I really think you need to stay in-state. Not because of the climate, but rather because you are being semi-delusional with all this debt that you think you want to accumulate.

 

[turbo]

Buffalo is definitely a no-go for a southerner. Early season lake-effect snowstorms can often drop FEET of snow at once. Even central Maine gets storms of 12-20 inches without the natives raising an eyebrow. I must say that if one has interests in materials and engineering U of M offers world-class educational/research opportunities.

Google on "Bridge in a backpack". U of M engineering students are also generally on the forefront in developing wood-composite materials. We have LOTS of trees here.

 

[Chunkysalsa]

You know that Gainesville (the city where UF is) isn't that big especially compared to the other schools in the state. UNF in Jacksonville (my school) is pretty small and not great, although really cheap with FA and scholarships you'll be making money going to school. The city is very large however (takes me about 20-40min to get to campus), but the campus is next to a mall-type area with plenty of different stores.

UCF is in orlando and is quite large. Of course Orlando being a urban area and a major tourist place might make this play unattractive. USF is in Tampa so another large bustling city. Same with FSU being in the capital.

UF is closest to what you are looking for and one of the best schools in the nation. Getting away from home is understandable, but choosing a city outside of your own is pretty far away. You don't need to spend that much money just to get as far away as possible. You'll really regret it when that money actually will mean something to you.

Secondly there's nothing stopping you from spending your undergrad years closer to home and then transferring for grad school. At that point you'll probably be better off. The B.S might net you a better part time job and you might have better transportation options.

Don't let that teenage independence syndrome cloud your better judgment. We all hate Florida, but in reality it ain't that bad.

 

[kaos86]

Since you're from Florida there are some things about "up north" that I don't think you fully appreciate. You see, we have this thing called "winter." You speak of wanting to be able to walk or bike everywhere. This is particularly comical since you were considering Burlington, VT, and now are considering Buffalo, NY. Buffalo gets several FEET of snow every winter and often has temperatures below zero Fahrenheit. Believe me, you are going to be in for a rude awakening if you, a native Floridian, think you're going to enjoy walking or (haha!) BIKING around town in the middle of winter.

I really think you need to stay in-state. Not because of the climate, but rather because you are being semi-delusional with all this debt that you think you want to accumulate.

Actually, I'm from up north. I was born and raised in Queens, New York. Moved to Florida when I was 13. BTW, I love the cold.

 

[kaos86]

You don't need to spend that much money just to get as far away as possible. You'll really regret it when that money actually will mean something to you.

Well, here are some few things that will not complicate this debt issue:

1.) I will never get married or have kids.(I like being alone, but I do enjoy having friends.)

2.) I will never need a car.(Gotta love the buses and subways.)

3.) I will spend my whole life focused on physics and get some theories working(I'm actually working on one theory and my dissertation for the Ph.D. in physics.)

People get married all the time, right? Well, I never want a family because its a hassle and too much work when coming home from work.The things in life I can deal with is paying bills and going to a job I love that involves physics. The problem with today's society is that people "Think" they have to get married. I'm 23 yrs old and in 13 years I hope I will have my Ph.D. in physics. In my life time, I just want to expand physics even more. I have no desire to have children or a nagging wife. Some of you think I will be miserable in my life being alone, but the real joy in my life is being creative.

 

[Chunkysalsa]

It's really naive to say all of that. You don't know what the future holds and what things you will experience. Opinions, beliefs, goals, etc all can change with time.

You say you don't want to get married until you find a person you want to get married too. Its impossible to predict the future but if you take on such a large debt you will be in a bad situation even if your life is in a good one. Imagine if things take a turn for the worst financially, this burden will cripple you.

Haven't you ever heard the expression, "Never say never"?

 

[contramundum]

Perhaps he meant to say that he doesn't believe in marriage.

 

[kaos86]

It's really naive to say all of that. You don't know what the future holds and what things you will experience. Opinions, beliefs, goals, etc all can change with time.

You say you don't want to get married until you find a person you want to get married too. Its impossible to predict the future but if you take on such a large debt you will be in a bad situation even if your life is in a good one. Imagine if things take a turn for the worst financially, this burden will cripple you.

Haven't you ever heard the expression, "Never say never"?

In order for me to make a good future, is to work hard at all cost. I do agree that I cannot predict the future, but I can plan a future for myself. Plans can go wrong only if you let it go wrong. Never had any desire to have a future with another person. Being a "workaholic" has its ups and downs on anyone. For MY plan to work, I need to work hard as much as I can.

 

[Mathnomalous]

I would encourage people to follow their dreams but to always attach enough "reality" chains to those dreams, in case situations don't develop as one hoped. In your case, it seems you are not chasing a dream, but a fantasy. It also seems you were seeking reassurance.

If your heart is set on attending University of Vermont, despite the price tag, by all means, attend University of Vermont. You were provided with all the appropriate information, opinions, and comments necessary to make an informed decision. You should be able to deal with the consequences as they come. Best of luck.

 

[kaos86]

I would encourage people to follow their dreams but to always attach enough "reality" chains to those dreams, in case situations don't develop as one hoped. In your case, it seems you are not chasing a dream, but a fantasy. It also seems you were seeking reassurance.

If your heart is set on attending University of Vermont, despite the price tag, by all means, attend University of Vermont. You were provided with all the appropriate information, opinions, and comments necessary to make an informed decision. You should be able to deal with the consequences as they come. Best of luck.

Lol! Actually, the people in this community helped me get away from the U. of Vermont. I'm looking at U. at Buffalo now. It's less expensive and the PF community did help me re-think my decision. We all have our "dream" school, but the PF community help me do more research. I'm glad I made this topic because I like to hear opinions from others.

 

[contramundum]

Lol! Actually, the people in this community helped me get away from the U. of Vermont. I'm looking at U. at Buffalo now.

As I said before, look at U-Minnesota.

 

[kaos86]

As I said before, look at U-Minnesota.

lol, yeah, I'm researching that university, too. I'm trying to decide between other universities as well.

 

[kaos86]

Perhaps he meant to say that he doesn't believe in marriage.

Whoa, hold it. I do believe in marriage. I just can't imagine myself being married. Its not something I would do because maybe I just gave up the whole dating ritual. Or, I might be the weirdest person on this forum.

 

[contramundum]

Whoa, hold it. I do believe in marriage. I just can't imagine myself being married. Its not something I would do because maybe I just gave up the whole dating ritual. Or, I might be the weirdest person on this forum.

Okay, my mistake.

 

[diggy]

Do what you want, but no it is not worth it. Not even close. You are better full filling your dream there as a grad student when they will pay you to go. Plus you can stay longer :)