Is \( n! > 2^n \) for \( n \ge 4 \)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around proving the inequality \( n! > 2^n \) for \( n \ge 4 \). Participants explore various approaches, including numerical examples and mathematical induction, while seeking a formal proof.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants provide numerical examples for \( n = 4 \) and \( n = 5 \) to illustrate the inequality, noting that \( 24 < 32 \) and \( 120 > 32 \).
  • One participant suggests using mathematical induction, proposing to identify the smallest integer \( k \) such that \( k! > 2^k \) and then show that \( (k + 1)! > 2^{k + 1} \).
  • Another participant points out that while examples show a trend, they do not constitute a formal proof and emphasizes the need for an induction proof.
  • A later reply presents a reasoning approach using the properties of factorials and inequalities, asserting that \( n! \) can be expressed in terms of its factors, which are all greater than or equal to 2 for \( n \ge 4 \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a formal proof. There are differing views on the sufficiency of numerical examples versus the need for a rigorous proof, particularly through induction.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the lack of a complete formal proof and the reliance on numerical examples, which may not fully establish the inequality for all \( n \ge 4 \). The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of what constitutes a valid proof in this context.

karush
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$\tiny{2.3.3}$
Prove $n! > 2^n$ for $n\ge4$
ok well the only thing I know to do is just try some numbers

$n=4, \quad 4\cdot3\cdot2\cdot1=24 \quad 2^4=32 \quad \therefore 32\ge24$
$n=5, \quad 5\cdot4\cdot3\cdot2\cdot1=120 \quad 2^5=32 \quad \therefore 120\ge32$

not sure just what the proof would be and looks like it must just be intergers

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karush said:
$\tiny{2.3.3}$
Prove $n! > 2^n$ for $n\ge4$
ok well the only thing I know to do is just try some numbers

$n=4, \quad 4\cdot3\cdot2\cdot1=24 \quad 2^4=32 \quad \therefore 32\ge24$
$n=5, \quad 5\cdot4\cdot3\cdot2\cdot1=120 \quad 2^5=32 \quad \therefore 120\ge32$

not sure just what the proof would be and looks like it must just be intergers

uld be
Are you allowed to use induction? Let k be the lowest integer such that [math]k! > 2^k[/math]. Then show that [math](k + 1)! > 2^{k + 1}[/math]

-Dan
 
Re: aa2.3.3 Prove n! &gt; 2^n for n\ge4

topsquark said:
Are you allowed to use induction? Let k be the lowest integer such that [math]k! > 2^k[/math]. Then show that [math](k + 1)! > 2^{k + 1}[/math]

-Dan

I thot that is what i did?

- - - Updated - - -
 
You showed a couple of examples which show a definite trend but didn't give an actual proof. This is a simple induction proof and basically copies what you have shown.

-Dan
 
Since $n\ge4=2^2$,
$$n!\ =\ \underbrace{n}_{\ge2^2} \cdot \underbrace{(n-1)}_{>2} \cdot \cdots \cdot \underbrace{3}_{>2} \cdot \underbrace{2}_{\ge2} \cdot 1\ >\ 2^n.$$
 

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