Is \(\nabla \times (f \nabla g) = \nabla f \times \nabla g\)?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Curl Gradient
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion confirms that the identity \(\nabla \times (f \nabla g) = \nabla f \times \nabla g\) holds true. The proof involves applying vector calculus identities and Schwarz's Theorem regarding the symmetry of second derivatives. Participants verified the correctness of the derivation and concluded that the remaining expression simplifies to \(\nabla f \times \nabla g\), thus completing the proof. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding vector calculus and the properties of derivatives.

PREREQUISITES
  • Vector calculus concepts, specifically curl and gradient operations.
  • Familiarity with Schwarz's Theorem in the context of partial derivatives.
  • Understanding of vector fields and their representations.
  • Basic proficiency in mathematical notation and manipulation of derivatives.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the properties of curl and gradient in vector calculus.
  • Learn more about Schwarz's Theorem and its applications in multivariable calculus.
  • Explore advanced vector identities and their proofs.
  • Practice problems involving the manipulation of vector fields and derivatives.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematics students, educators, and professionals in fields requiring advanced calculus, particularly those focused on vector calculus and differential equations.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

I want to show that $\nabla\times (f\nabla g)=\nabla f\times \nabla g$.

We have that $f\nabla g=f\sum\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_i}\hat{x}_i$, therefore we get \begin{align*}&\nabla\times (f\nabla g)=\nabla\times \left (f\sum\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_i}\hat{x}_i \right )\\ & =\nabla\times \left (\sum f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_i}\hat{x}_i \right ) \\ & =\nabla\times \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}, f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2} ,f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3} \right ) \\ & = \left [ \frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right )-\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right ), \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )-\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right ), \frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right )-\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (f\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )\right ]\\ & = \left [ \frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (f\right )\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}+f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right )-\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (f\right )\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right ), \frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (f\right )\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}+f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )-\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (f\right )\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right ), \frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (f\right )\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}+f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right )-\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (f\right )\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )\right ]\\ & = \left [ \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_2} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}+f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right )-\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_3} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right ), \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_3} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}+f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )-\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_1} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right ), \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_1} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}+f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right )-\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_2} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )\right ]\\ & = \left [ \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_2} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}-\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_3} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}, \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_3} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}-\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_1} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}, \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_1} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}-\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_2} \frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right ]+\left [ f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right )-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right ), f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_3} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_3}\right ), f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_1} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_2}\right )-f\frac{\partial}{\partial x_2} \left (\frac{\partial g}{\partial x_1}\right )\right ]\end{align*}

Is everything correct so far? How could we continue? (Wondering)

Or is there an other way to show this? (Wondering)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hey mathmari! (Smile)

It looks correct to me, and I'm not aware of a different way to prove it.

To continue we need to realize that:
$$\pd {}{x_2}\left(\pd{g}{x_3}\right)=\pd {}{x_3}\left(\pd{g}{x_2}\right)=\frac {\partial^2g}{\partial x_2 \partial x_3}
$$
See Schwarz's Theorem in Symmetry of second derivatives. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
To continue we need to realize that:
$$\pd {}{x_2}\left(\pd{g}{x_3}\right)=\pd {}{x_3}\left(\pd{g}{x_2}\right)=\frac {\partial^2g}{\partial x_2 \partial x_3}
$$
See Schwarz's Theorem in Symmetry of second derivatives. (Thinking)

How could we continue using this property? I got stuck right now... (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
How could we continue using this property? I got stuck right now... (Wondering)

Doesn't it make the second term in your last expression become the zero vector?

And which expression are we aiming for? That is, what is $\nabla f \times \nabla g$? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Doesn't it make the second term in your last expression become the zero vector?

Ah yes! (Blush)

I like Serena said:
And which expression are we aiming for? That is, what is $\nabla f \times \nabla g$? (Wondering)

The expression that is remained is $\nabla f \times \nabla g$, so we are done! (Yes)

Thank you! (Smile)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K