Is our locally measured time actually conformal time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of locally measured time in the context of the Friedmann-Robertson-Walker (FRW) metric and its relationship to conformal time. Participants explore the mathematical transformations between different time variables and their implications for understanding time in cosmological models.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that locally measured time is not cosmological time but rather conformal time, based on transformations of the FRW metric.
  • Another participant asserts that proper time, which is nearly identical to cosmological time, is what is locally measured by observers.
  • A different participant challenges the validity of the transformation proposed, arguing that the physical line element must remain invariant and that proper time is defined differently.
  • Some participants propose a transformation involving the logarithm of the scale factor, suggesting that this leads to a different understanding of the metric.
  • There is a correction regarding the relationship between the time variable and the scale factor, indicating a need for a different integral form to define conformal time.
  • A later reply expresses a newfound understanding of conformal time, acknowledging its utility in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between locally measured time, proper time, and conformal time. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the transformations and definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in their transformations and assumptions regarding the scale factor and its implications for the metric. There is also a recognition that the definitions and relationships may vary depending on the local region of spacetime being considered.

jcap
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The FRW metric at the origin ##r=0##, with ##c=1##, is given by:
$$ds^2=-dt^2+a(t)^2dr^2$$
Now one can change variables so that near the origin the FRW metric is approximated by the Minkowski metric describing flat spacetime:
$$dS^2=-dT^2+dR^2$$
where:
$$dT=\frac{dt}{a(t)}$$
$$dS=\frac{ds}{a(t)}$$
$$dR=dr$$
All the physics experiments that we perform locally are assumed to occur in flat spacetime as described above.

Surely therefore our locally measured time is not the cosmological time ##t## but rather the conformal time ##T## ?
 
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The local measured time, for any observer, is the proper time. The proper time is, in this case, almost identical to the cosmological time.
 
jcap said:
one can change variables so that near the origin the FRW metric is approximated by the Minkowski metric describing flat spacetime:
$$
dS^2=-dT^2+dR^2
$$

where:

$$​
dT=\frac{dt}{a(t)}
$$

$$
dS=\frac{ds}{a(t)}
$$

$$
dR = dr
$$

This isn't a correct transformation. You can't transform ##ds## to ##dS##; ##ds## is the actual, physical line element, and it has to be left invariant, otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges. The correct transformation gives:

$$
ds^2 = a^2(T) \left( - dT^2 + dR^2 \right)
$$

In order to make the metric Minkowski in our local vicinity, you have to define ##a(T_0) = 1##, where ##T_0## is our current value of ##T##. But that only works locally, and we can make observations that go beyond that local region of spacetime. And in any case, proper time for an observer at constant ##R## is given by ##a(T) dT##, not ##dT##; again, you can try to obscure this by defining ##a(T_0) = 1##, but we can make observations covering a larger region of spacetime than the local region covered by that definition.
 
You can make the following:

ds^2= dt^2 - a^2(t) dr^2 = a^2(t) \big( \frac{dt^2}{a^2(t)} - dr^2 \big)

now you can write the first term in the parenthesis as a single variable by changing \frac{dt}{a(t)}= d( \ln a(t) ) \equiv dT.

So:

ds^2= a^2(t) \big[ dT^2 - dr^2 \big] or to have everything in the same coordinates: ds^2= e^{2T} \big[ dT^2 - dr^2 \big]
since T(t)= \ln a(t) \Rightarrow a(t)= e^{T}
 
ChrisVer said:
You can make the following:

ds^2= dt^2 - a^2(t) dr^2 = a^2(t) \big( \frac{dt^2}{a^2(t)} - dr^2 \big)

now you can write the first term in the parenthesis as a single variable by changing \frac{dt}{a(t)}= d( \ln a(t) ) \equiv dT.

So:

ds^2= a^2(t) \big[ dT^2 - dr^2 \big] or to have everything in the same coordinates: ds^2= e^{2T} \big[ dT^2 - dr^2 \big]
since T(t)= \ln a(t) \Rightarrow a(t)= e^{T}

But ## d(\ln a(t))=\frac{\dot a(t)}{a(t)}dt\neq\frac{dt}{a(t)} ##
You need ## T=\int\frac{dt}{a(t)} ## instead
 
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Oops I'm sorry!
 
No it's an interesting point, I have been using this ## T=\int\frac{dt}{a(t)} ## but I didn't know it was called conformal time - never really got to checking what that name was referring to, seemed a bit exotic... So now I know, and I can also see it's a useful thing - thanks.
 

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