Is Potential Energy Infinite at Any Point for Point Masses?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of potential energy for point masses in the context of gravitational fields. Participants explore the implications of using different reference points for calculating potential energy and the limitations of classical physics when applied to point masses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the potential energy of a body relative to a center of gravity, suggesting that using the inverse square law leads to the conclusion that potential energy is infinite at any point.
  • Another participant explains that the inverse square force law applies to point masses and that potential energy is typically measured against a reference point that is infinitely far away, resulting in negative potential energy values as one approaches the center of gravity.
  • A later reply reiterates that potential energy is infinite when measured against a reference at the gravitating point and suggests selecting a different reference point.
  • Some participants discuss the existence of point masses, with one suggesting that point masses may not truly exist, while another notes that fundamental particles like electrons are considered point masses, highlighting the breakdown of classical mechanics at those scales.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of potential energy being infinite for point masses and the validity of point masses in classical mechanics. No consensus is reached regarding the nature of point masses or the appropriate reference points for potential energy calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the applicability of classical physics to point masses and the selection of reference points for potential energy calculations, which remain unresolved.

MicroCosmos
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Hi everyone, first post here.

Today i crushed into a question. I was going to write it down here, then i crushed into another one.
Lets say we want to know the potential energy of a body relative to a center of gravity.
I will refer to gravitys acceleration as "g" and to mass as "m". "k" will be some constant unit.

If we take a near, lower height(h) as reference it would be "m·g·h" because g doesn't change with h.

But if i want to reference to the center of gravity, because of g(h) = k/h2, i can't use that anymore. I suppose i need ∫m*g(h) dh from 0 to the wanted height. That supposes potential energy is infinite at any point !

Some ideas? Am i doing something wrong?
Thanks!
 
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The inverse square force law applies for point masses and for spherically symmetric masses acting on outside objects. Once an object dips into the interior of a gravitating body, the portion of the gravitating body higher in altitude than the object ceases to have any net effect. See Newton's spherical shell theorem.

So let's say that we are talking about a point mass. Then yes, the potential energy measured against a reference at the gravitating point is infinite. You can take that as a clue that you should be selecting a different reference point, that the laws of classical physics cannot hold for point objects or both.

The alternate reference point that is normally chosen is one infinitely far away. So that potential energy is always negative and gets more negative the closer you get to the center.
 
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Yes, i meant point masses. Okay, that clears everything, thank you very much!
 
jbriggs444 said:
So let's say that we are talking about a point mass. Then yes, the potential energy measured against a reference at the gravitating point is infinite. You can take that as a clue that you should be selecting a different reference point, that the laws of classical physics cannot hold for point objects or both.

Or that point masses don't really exist!
 
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jtbell said:
Or that point masses don't really exist!
what ?
 
Fundamental particles like electrons are thought to be point masses. But classical mechanics breaks down at those scales.
 

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