Al68 said:Libertarianism, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism" , has been written about extensively since the Enlightenment by such brilliant classical liberals as John Locke, Adam Smith, Hobbes, Fredric Bastiat, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, and countless others. If you were really interested, I'm sure you could find much info online, and I could even help. But I'm unaware of a good in-depth source online in a single location. Of course I haven't looked that hard, since I have a very good understanding of it that predates the internet. (We used to read real books, in brick libraries, you know. :!))
The latter, sort of. This kind: http://www.theihs.org/what-libertarian. Like I said, I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist. I'm what the word liberal always meant prior to the turn of the century, or a classical liberal.DanP said:Which kind of libertarianism?
The one who wants to totally eliminate the state , or the one which wants to maintain the state with minimal powers, just as a law enforcement force ?
Al68 said:The latter, sort of. This kind: http://www.theihs.org/what-libertarian. Like I said, I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist. I'm what the word liberal always meant prior to the turn of the century, or a classical liberal.
I know many small groups of anarchists and others use the word libertarian, but historically it has been fairly synonymous with classical liberalism.
Nope. Not very different at all:DanP said:Libertarianism SHOULD NOT be under any circumstances confused with Classical Liberalism. 2 very different animals.
Al68 said:Nope. Not very different at all:
http://www.theihs.org/what-libertarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
That's just false. Please cease and desist once and for all making false claims about what I do or don't want or believe. I will tell you what I want and believe, and that is that.nismaratwork said:No, and I don't think you're racist, but I think you're still falling to the belief that your view is not a different kind of authoritarian view. You want to impose your own beliefs on others in the name of freedom... always a dangerous thing.
You are very, very, VERY, confused if you think libertarianism is a type of authoritarianism.You mean it too, and don't see how that's the case, which makes it even MORE dangerous.
Logically incomprehensible.I don't think you're a bad person, but I think you've "stood for nothing", and ended, "falling for everything".
More logical incoherence.You can't ignore the modern move that Libs have made to become anarchists or nihilists. Maybe you would be better served by not identifying with a group, but identifying with a set of solutions to specific problems; go narrow spectrum, not panacea.
Al68 said:That's just false. Please cease and desist once and for all making false claims about what I do or don't want or believe. I will tell you what I want and believe, and that is that.You are very, very, VERY, confused if you think libertarianism is a type of authoritarianism.Logically incomprehensible.More logical incoherence.
Logically nonsensical assertions with no substantiation whatsoever provides nothing legitimate to the thread.
I provided sources that substantiate the opposite claim. You have made unsubstantiated assertions about political philosophies that aren't even yours.DanP said:Some libertarians like to paint themselves as classical liberals, but that's kinda all. They are different.
See above. Your lack of understanding of libertarianism does not equal "don't seem to have a very well defined political identity".Id say Omcheeto was right, libertarians don't seem to have a very well defined political identity.
Al68 said:I provided sources that substantiate the opposite claim. You have made unsubstantiated assertions about political philosophies that aren't even yours.
As a libertarian, and a classical liberal, I don't have to meet every definition ever used by anyone of either. It's not that hard to understand.
See above. Your lack of understanding of libertarianism does not equal "don't seem to have a very well defined political identity".
Historically, libertarianism is essentially classical liberalism. If you knew the subject matter, you would realize that the overwhelming bulk of alternate groups using the word "libertarian" are fleeting very small groups, not significant to the issue.
Are you freaking kidding me here? I have consistently provided explanations and sources while you have provided logically incoherent nonsense, unsubstantiated wild claims, outright false statements, and talk in circles every time this is pointed out.nismaratwork said:It seems you've confused us all... maybe you need to start explaining things, instead of challenging everyone to a meangingless debate.
Al68 said:I provided sources that substantiate the opposite claim. You have made unsubstantiated assertions about political philosophies that aren't even yours.
.
I have no desire to write out thousands of words in a post instead of a link, no. That's why we use links.nismaratwork said:You don't find it odd at all, that you're alone in this? You have no desire to clarify what you do believe in, but would rather exchange links?
Still not making any logical sense. You are the one who consistently refuses to act in good faith.How much of what you say is pushing ideology, and how much in good faith?... I had assumed the latter until recently.
Nonsense. Unsubstantiated absurd assertions have no value in the matter.DanP said:You painted yourself in a row as a "right wing radical", "libertarian", and "classical liberal". Like, I said, if that's not proof of a weak political identity, nothing is.
Seriously? You're going to tell a lifelong libertarian, who has studied it for decades, how to learn what a libertarian is?As for what libertariansim is in fact, you can learn here:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/libertarianism/
Al68 said:Nonsense. Unsubstantiated absurd assertions have no value in the matter.Seriously? You're going to tell a lifelong libertarian, who has studied it for decades, how to learn what a libertarian is?
I'm done with this nonsense. I am more than willing to answer anyone's legitimate specific questions.nismaratwork said:No Al... I'm not kidding you...
Your self-styled labels are no longer sufficient given the amount of sheer pique you're showing at being misunderstood. Please, explain what it means to be right wing, libertarian, liberal, constructionist?
Here's where I am, full disclosure: I think you're either confused yourself, or being disingenuous. I feel the need to know which based on YOUR words, not some links. If you can't do that, then like a physicist who fails the "bar" test... I don't think your understanding is deep. If you can, why not do it and turn this around?
Proton Soup said:i haven't watched him in a while. i assume he still does analysis for Fox. but he always gave an insider view into the way these people really think. at least for the politickin to the public side of things.
Al68 said:I'm done with this nonsense. I am more than willing to answer anyone's legitimate specific questions.
nismaratwork said:Really? He just struck me as a guy with a nasty grudge, bordering on obsessive hatred.