Is pushing yourself to the point of injury really worth it in weightlifting?

[Proton Soup]

True, at lower repetitions one may not feel the burn, but I have to disagree that when lifting heavy you should not fatigue your muscles. The whole idea of weight-training is to fatigue your muscles - if you don't break down the muscle fibres, they will never hypertrophy. There are only a few exercise where it is dangerous to go to complete failure, back-squats being one of them. Fatiguing your muscles doesn't mean that you have to loose your form, it is perfectly possible to go to complete failure whilst keeping strict form and in the case of dead-lift there is no reason why you can't go to complete failure, provided that you do keep strict form. Once you've reached failure, all you need do is drop the bar.

no, this is completely wrong. it's not simply lactic acid buildup that causes or indicates break down of muscle fibers. that burn is indicating fuel usage, not microtrauma to the muscle fiber.

 

[Hootenanny]

no, this is completely wrong. it's not simply lactic acid buildup that causes or indicates break down of muscle fibers. that burn is indicating fuel usage, not microtrauma to the muscle fiber.

I never said that the burn was related to muscle breakdown (see my earlier posts). The comment regarding muscle fibre breakdown and failure was in reference to your comment regarding fatigue heavy weight. Perhaps I should have used a full stop rather than a comma.

 

[Moonbear]

OK, so you're broken, i get that. the suggestion was simply to try it without the toes pointing straight up. he'll either get more hamstring activation or not, it's simply an experiment. your knee problems may also have nothing at all to do with this. you've got an injury and you're working around it.

No, I'm not "broken." This is the natural way my body has formed...since birth. And, you DON'T want to experiment with form. You want to get a proper evaluation and do it right from the start. Experimentation is how one ends up with injuries! Please don't recommend irresponsible activities here!

You're also incorrect to just lump together actions of the "glutes" as you put it. There are THREE gluteal muscles, the gluteus maximus, gluteus medius, and gluteus minimus. They do NOT all have the same functions...in fact, the fibers of those muscles run in completely different directions. The gluteus maximums extends the thigh and laterally rotates it. By contrast, the gluteus medius and minimus muscles medially rotate the thigh. These are OPPOSING functions of those muscles.

The piriformis is a lateral rotator and only functions in abduction if the thigh is already flexed at the hip, along with the gemelli and obturator internus muscles. However, the gluteus medius is the stronger abductor.

And to lump all the hamstring muscles together is also inaccurate. Turning one's leg either medially or laterally would work different ones of the hamstring muscles, preferentially, since they insert on either side of the leg below the knee. I would not recommend over-exerting one preferentially to the others, because they do have their greatest strength as a group.

Consider this official caution not to continue recommending specific exercises and techniques in lieu of a proper trainer present, because that is more likely to get someone injured than to help.

 

[Proton Soup]

very well, but i am curious. are you a runner?

 

[Moonbear]

very well, but i am curious. are you a runner?

No. I'm an anatomy professor. I teach the exercise physiologists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, med student and nursing students who will patch back together the weight lifters who think they can do it on their own without any advice or help. Even knowing what I know, I still know I need a pair of eyes on me when weight lifting to ensure my form is correct when doing something new...and even to spot check on something old just in case.

 

[Proton Soup]

No. I'm an anatomy professor. I teach the exercise physiologists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, med student and nursing students who will patch back together the weight lifters who think they can do it on their own without any advice or help. Even knowing what I know, I still know I need a pair of eyes on me when weight lifting to ensure my form is correct when doing something new...and even to spot check on something old just in case.

ah, well, good luck with your knees. do you actually have connective tissue damage, or is it just pain?

 

[WarPhalange]

True, at lower repetitions one may not feel the burn, but I have to disagree that when lifting heavy you should not fatigue your muscles. The whole idea of weight-training is to fatigue your muscles - if you don't break down the muscle fibres, they will never hypertrophy. There are only a few exercise where it is dangerous to go to complete failure, back-squats being one of them. Fatiguing your muscles doesn't mean that you have to loose your form, it is perfectly possible to go to complete failure whilst keeping strict form and in the case of dead-lift there is no reason why you can't go to complete failure, provided that you do keep strict form. Once you've reached failure, all you need do is drop the bar.

What do you mean by "fatigue"? Do you mean going so hard that you can't do another rep? Then you'll be happy to know you're a unique individual because not many people do that very often. If you do that every workout, you won't improve much. Over training is just as bad as not training enough.

 

[Moonbear]

ah, well, good luck with your knees. do you actually have connective tissue damage, or is it just pain?

No pain yet. Just a tell-tale clicking around the patellar tendon when I climb stairs. If I stand with my toes pointing forward, it's quickly obvious that my femur and patella are medially rotated, while my tibia is not. It's not giving me trouble now other than the clicking (and I can feel the grinding if I put my hand over it while extending my leg too), but since it runs in the family, I know there is knee surgery in my future. I'm just doing the best I can to be cautious now so I can prolong the inevitable as long as possible.

 

[Proton Soup]

No pain yet. Just a tell-tale clicking around the patellar tendon when I climb stairs. If I stand with my toes pointing forward, it's quickly obvious that my femur and patella are medially rotated, while my tibia is not. It's not giving me trouble now other than the clicking (and I can feel the grinding if I put my hand over it while extending my leg too), but since it runs in the family, I know there is knee surgery in my future. I'm just doing the best I can to be cautious now so I can prolong the inevitable as long as possible.

ok, that derailed my thought process.

 

[JasonRox]

So, who has the biggest penis?

 

[WarPhalange]

So, who has the biggest penis?

Not like it matters. You couldn't afford me on your salary anyway.

 

[Proton Soup]

So, who has the biggest penis?

i doubt it's me. I'm very average.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j517r35408304087/

 

[instant_ramen]

LMAO @ thread.

 

[Moonbear]

So, who has the biggest penis?

Well, I hope it's not me, unless I get to claim someone else's for keeps.

 

[WarPhalange]

i doubt it's me. I'm very average.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j517r35408304087/

People with large penises are gay. That's good to know. Now I have some ammunition.

 

[SticksandStones]

So, who has the biggest penis?

Me, I always respond to those emails about it.

 

[instant_ramen]

<< So, who has the biggest penis? >>

Pamela Anderson. Period.

 

[Proton Soup]

a slightly exaggerated commentary on crossfit

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vsOaHmVzDak

 

[Virtuous]

What wrong with training to failure? I do it most of the time. I've gained a lot of ground doing it that way.

From barely able to bench 90 pounds to being able to do 2 plates (225ibs). For a geek...that's decent (I want 315 though). (well semi geek I was into sports too), I was skinny as hell. If I don't push to failure I am not gaining...like anything...at least 3 of the work outs a week I am pushing myself. I had a slight sprain in my bicep, once maybe but...that's pretty much it. I went a whole year wasted on doing above-par effort and I didn't increase at all. within 2 months my last set that I could barely get, became my first set.

Technique is the most important aspect.

I was doing dumbell presses with 40's 5 reps, now I can do 80's 5 reps.

Anyone who doesn't do weightlifting here...do it. It's amazing, absolutely amazing feeling. Whatever your level is.

The downside to training to failure is you need a buddy to go with...or you have to use universial machines, which suck on average.

 

[Proton Soup]

technique often goes to hell on max lifts, tho. which is bad for something like bench press since the shoulder joint is one of the least stable joints in the body. it depends a great deal on having strong and healthy rotators to hold it in place. longer term, you'll do better to focus on moderate rep schemes designed to add muscle mass and not try to max out a weight. staying uninjured is the name of the game, and it becomes much more important as you approach middle age. but with some attention to diet, training (every 3-5 days), and consistency, you might could reach your goal in another 3-5 years.

also, consider training in a cage with the safeties set.

 

[Virtuous]

Cage?

never even heard of the term weight-lifting wise, what is it?

The only cage I know is within MMA, which I would like to do because I am interesting in martial arts as much as I am in physics!

 

[Proton Soup]

Cage?

never even heard of the term weight-lifting wise, what is it?

The only cage I know is within MMA, which I would like to do because I am interesting in martial arts as much as I am in physics!

cage, power rack, something like this: http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/powerracks.html
an absolute necessity if you lift alone.

usually, people use a cage or rack for http://www.anaerobicendurance.com/uploads/crossfitendurance/image/CF%20toronto%20back%20squat_6491-550x365.jpg" , and it's kind of hard to find a pic where they're using it for bench.

this one, the safeties look a bit flimsy: http://a232.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/30/l_64b66678f21c13ab44e6f24882b8b077.jpg
but it's better than nothing, because if he drops that, there's no way his buddies can have the reflexes to catch it.