Medical Is Remote Mind Control Possible Without Implants?

[Delta2]

I want to ask if it is possible to remotely monitor and alter the signals of the brain of an individual and whether this require the use of some sort of electronic neuroimplant or not.

Would be interesting to know if and how this can be done without the use of an implant. (Because seems to me that it is quite reasonable and possible to do it with the use of an implant).

 

[DanP]

I want to ask if it is possible to remotely monitor and alter the signals of the brain of an individual and whether this require the use of some sort of electronic neuroimplant or not.

Would be interesting to know if and how this can be done without the use of an implant. (Because seems to me that it is quite reasonable and possible to do it with the use of an implant).

Transcranial magnetic stimulation is noninvasive.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Researchers have been able to manipulate the neurons of animals non-invasively using light-gated ion channels. These ion channels open in response to laser light of a specific frequency and can depolarize/hyper-polarize neurons to trigger/inhibit signaling from these neurons. In small, transparent animals (such as small worms and zebrafish, two commonly used experimental systems in biology), this technique is non-invasive as it involves only shining light onto the animals. Brain activity can also be monitored optically using fluorescent proteins (biosensors) that light up in response to neuronal activity (e.g. voltage changes, calcium ions). These techniques becomes more problematic in larger animals which are not optically transparent (such as mice).

This technique would not be suitable for manipulating and monitoring the neurons of humans as it requires genetically engineering the subject to produce the light-gated ion channels and fluorescent biosensors in neurons.

 

[Delta2]

I see, what you both believe about remote mind control technology (even with the use of implants), is it real technology or it is just some crazy people that don't know what they are saying?

 

[Borek]

They are both right about our (technical) ability to manipulate brain/neurons, it has nothing to do with a "mind control" in the colloquial sense.

 

[Delta2]

They are both right about our (technical) ability to manipulate brain/neurons, it has nothing to do with a "mind control" in the colloquial sense.

Ok so you basically saying that there is the technology to do it, but you don't think that it is done (by CIA or other organizations or individual "evil geniuses").

To put it more clearly answer with Yes, No or Maybe the following question:

If someone evil enough and smart enough wants to procceed to remote mind control experiments is it within the technological abilities of the current science/technology (or he ll have to create new theory and invent breakthrough technology)?

 

[Borek]

Define "mind control" before we will proceed further.

 

[Phrak]

I am tempted to reproduce the OP in the politics and world afairs folder where remote mind control is a commonplace subject.

 

[Delta2]

Define "mind control" before we will proceed further.

To monitor and affect or alter the signals of the brain or induce new signals in brain.

In general to monitor and affect by external/foreign(to the physiology of the brain and the human body) means the structure and operation of the human brain.

Remote mind control is to do this by remote means without the use of wires or local apparatus (local that is in relation to the brain that is monitored/affected).

E.g MRI scan of a brain is "mind control" that it isn't remote though, it uses local apparatus and does mainly monitoring.

The "real" mind control is the remote mind control, that's why i put this subject and i am interested specific on this, because it easily can be used for malevolent purposes.

P.S Probably it isn't possible for even the most advanced current technology to implement true remote mind control, small local elements i.e the implants that communicate wirelessly are needed, but i don't really know is it possible to do it without implants?

 

[Pythagorean]

I am tempted to reproduce the OP in the politics and world afairs folder where remote mind control is a commonplace subject.

This is, more or less, my line of thinking. Every time you talk or demonstrate body language, you're potentially manipulating signals in your participant's brain. If you do it intelligently... well, that's social engineering.

 

[DanP]

This is, more or less, my line of thinking. Every time you talk or demonstrate body language, you're potentially manipulating signals in your participant's brain. If you do it intelligently... well, that's social engineering.

There is a whole discipline dealing with this, it's called Social Psychology. Arguably, the most high impact experiment in social psych last century was Milgram's obedience experiments, and very interesting was also the work done on social conformity and compliance experiments.

 

[Pythagorean]

There is a whole discipline dealing with this, it's called Social Psychology.

I just actually read Walden Two by BF SKinner for a "Learning and Cognition" psych class, which is why that was probably my first thought.

 

[Delta2]

This is, more or less, my line of thinking. Every time you talk or demonstrate body language, you're potentially manipulating signals in your participant's brain. If you do it intelligently... well, that's social engineering.

Yes ok nice that's a form of "soft" mind control too to affect the thoughts and feelings of others. But can you using body language manipulate signals that relate to biological functions, like heartbeat rate, signals of pain of all kinds. Of course you can't . You also have to be in proximity of the affected brains in order for your bodylanguage to work. Its local mind control.

Big problem with this matter is that it is almost impossible to talk about it without attracting sarcastic or all kind of negative comments. Majority of people think that remote mind control is just something crazy that doesn't happen in real life. Ok but speaking purely hypothetically suppose that a human being is a victim of remote mind control technology (suppose that there are aliens that have true remote mind control technology, i emphasize that we just suppose) is there a way for this hypothetical human being to expose his problem and speak about it openly without being considered some sort of psycho/crazy man? Ofcourse not you ll say because the whole hypothesis (aliens? huh) can't be real. Ok but suppose it is real what this hypothetical victim could do?

 

[DanP]

Yes ok nice that's a form of "soft" mind control too to affect the thoughts and feelings of others. But can you using body language manipulate signals that relate to biological functions, like heartbeat rate, signals of pain of all kinds. Of course you can't . You also have to be in proximity of the affected brains in order for your bodylanguage to work. Its local mind control.

Put a hot naked woman in front of man to see whatever it affects biological function.

 

[Delta2]

Put a hot naked woman in front of man to see whatever it affects biological function.

Ha ok but that's local mind control too ). And also it is not fully controllable, cannot raise or lower heartbeat or sexual signals according to a specific pattern.

 

[Pythagorean]

Ha ok but that's local mind control too ). And also it is not fully controllable, cannot raise or lower heartbeat or sexual signals according to a specific pattern.

What about radio, television, movies, world of warcraft? There's actually some behavioral designing that goes into things like this (especially games like world of warcraft.. they've worked out an excellent reward scheme.)

And it's done remotely!

As for how detailed of control you get, of course you can't control the placement of every beat, but you can lead a person into fear, into admiration, into anxiety; and all of these have biological manifestations, too.

 

[Delta2]

What about radio, television, movies, world of warcraft? There's actually some behavioral designing that goes into things like this (especially games like world of warcraft.. they've worked out an excellent reward scheme.)

And it's done remotely!

As for how detailed of control you get, of course you can't control the placement of every beat, but you can lead a person into fear, into admiration, into anxiety; and all of these have biological manifestations, too.

Yes but all of these have a local element which is easily identifiable and traceable by the basic human senses. In the case of WoW it is all the hardware and software u use in order to play it. It is very near to the brain and easily recognizable by the senses. So its not remote mind control, in order to be remote mind control the only local element has to be the brain and nothing else or at least something small enough that can be almost said to be nothing (though it would do crucial job to the whole operation of the remote mind technology, like a very small implant put inside brain, able of sensing/transmitting neural signals and able of wireless communication with a remote hardware from where it is controlled)

P.S WoW is indeed some form of mind control no joking :P. I was playing it for about one year , like 16hours per day, now i can dominate over it don't play more than 5h.

 

[sanko]

What they call as 'brain signals'are actually alfa beta waves generated by neuronal excitation.Just like magnetic field generated by current(its just analogue don't take it litteraly)so you can't controll brain signals really. If you want to ask, can you excite neuron? then it require electric potential which can be given by implant, can't be given externally as our skull skin is nonconductive. while you can controll implant remotely but in anyways you require implant.
For 'mind controll' its not a simple thing.With implant You can only excite neurons of perticular centre or nerve. While even simple nonvoluntory thing like blinking on flash of light envolves many complicated inter-related fine pathways,if you try to imitate it,its impossible, you can not excite so many cobwebs of neuron and that too in perticular order or cascade infact we don't even know most of the pathways.So forget about mind controll .