News Is Rick Santorum's Religious Extremism a Deal Breaker for Voters?

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Rick Santorum is a prominent figure in the GOP race, attracting both support and criticism. His strong Evangelical backing helped him perform well in Iowa, but opinions vary on his viability as a candidate. Many view him as a fundamentalist Christian extremist, particularly due to his stances on issues like contraception and abortion, including his controversial comments suggesting that rape victims should "make the best out of a bad situation." Critics express concern over his perceived anti-science views, particularly his characterization of scientists as amoral, which they argue undermines the ethical considerations inherent in scientific research. The media's preference for candidates like Romney adds to the skepticism about Santorum's long-term prospects. Overall, discussions reflect a deep divide on his candidacy, with some viewing him as a serious contender while others see him as a flash in the pan due to his extreme views.
  • #201
WhoWee said:
It's obvious to me (my opinion) that anyone who sits in a church for 20 years probably believes what they are hearing from the preacher - or they would go somewhere else - again, my opinion.

After going to church for something like 15 years of my life, I actually came out in the opposite direction. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I think that it's pretty easy to just go and sit in a building and pretend to be listening, but not actually care about or believe in what the person is saying to you.
 
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  • #202
SHISHKABOB said:
After going to church for something like 15 years of my life, I actually came out in the opposite direction. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I think that it's pretty easy to just go and sit in a building and pretend to be listening, but not actually care about or believe in what the person is saying to you.

I recall a few recent compliance classes that fit nicely into your description.
 
  • #203
WhoWee said:
I recall a few recent compliance classes that fit nicely into your description.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.
 
  • #204
WhoWee said:
It's obvious to me (my opinion) that anyone who sits in a church for 20 years probably believes what they are hearing from the preacher - or they would go somewhere else - again, my opinion.

Obama may or may not have been there when Wright said the controversial things he did. The clips of Wright though, represent a few moments, out of the 20 years Obama had attended. If Wright condemned America for the KKK every sermon, then there would be a whole lot more than the few clips your talking about.

I wonder what Santorum's position is on the US history of slavory? According to him, those times were part of the period prior to the almost 200 years Satan had his sights only on America, and before Satan was successful at corroding the christian foundations of America.
 
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  • #205
It seams as thought Santorum is saying that the entire world except the US, has completely fallen to Satan. And, that all US institutions have also fallen, except US politics, of which there is now a spiritual war fighting over.
 
  • #206
jreelawg said:
Obama may or may not have been there when Wright said the controversial things he did. The clips of Wright though, represent a few moments, out of the 20 years Obama had attended. If Wright condemned America for the KKK every sermon, then there would be a whole lot more than the few clips your talking about.

I wonder what Santorum's position is on the US history of slavory? According to him, those times were part of the period prior to the almost 200 years Satan had his sights only on America, and before Satan was successful at corroding the christian foundations of America.

Unless Wright was televised weekly, it might be hard to find evidence either way.
 
  • #207
SHISHKABOB said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

It was a joke. I've been attending some very boring lectures lately - having to do with HIPPA/MIPPA compliance.
 
  • #208
jreelawg said:
Obama may or may not have been there when Wright said the controversial things he did. The clips of Wright though, represent a few moments, out of the 20 years Obama had attended. If Wright condemned America for the KKK every sermon, then there would be a whole lot more than the few clips your talking about.

I wonder what Santorum's position is on the US history of slavory? According to him, those times were part of the period prior to the almost 200 years Satan had his sights only on America, and before Satan was successful at corroding the christian foundations of America.

The slavery thing sounds like a strawman emerging - but as you pointed out about Wright - if there's more than one comment it should be easy to source (on Santorum) - no reason to speculate.
 
  • #209
jreelawg said:
Sure, but this is Santorum himself speaking. This is what he believes.

A very important distinction...critical, in fact.
 
  • #210
WhoWee said:
Unless Wright was televised weekly, it might be hard to find evidence either way.
Last I looked, Wright wasn't running for President, so I suggest you stop the red herring tactic.
 
  • #211
Gokul43201 said:
So women should be disallowed from serving in the front lines because men lack the discipline to stick to the mission?

This is a pattern I notice quite often, not just with respect to women in the military, but many other excuses for denying women equal rights. It leaves me wondering whether those coming up with these excuses are really misogynistic, or actually misandristic? (However that ought to be spelled.) It seems the issue they worry about isn't that women aren't strong enough to serve in the roles, but that men are too weak and easily distracted to serve with them.
 
  • #212
The way I see it, Santorum thinks that America was almost perfect, and now in modern times is being taken over by Satan.

Where as Obama, in my opinion thinks that those times in the past, when black people and women were suppressed etc, were actually bad, and that modern times, when people are free, can get an education and be hopeful to the future etc, is good.

They are practically opposite views. Also, the way that they each conduct themselves in regards to their religion is very different. Obama, has focused on helping his community, he is concerned with the plight of the poor, and middle class, and seams to be a charitable guy by nature. These values make sense if he is a christian, as they are the type of values that Jesus supposedly held.

In contrast, Santorum, a wealthy man, has pretty much no history of charity, and in fact rants against it. He has stated he is not concerned with the poor. These are values which seam to go against his own religion.

Personally, I think that people can for the most part make whatever they will out of their faith. There is so much fighting over who is and who isn't an authentic christian.

To me, the type of Christian who seams to focus on good will towards others, and hope and all that stuff, don't scare me.

It's the ones who try to rally angry mobs with angry speeches about apocalyptic spiritual battles who scare me.
 
  • #213
turbo said:
We have scare-mongers on the right warning against the establishment of "Sharia Law" in the US, but some of them appear to want to establish fundamentalist theology as a foundation of our government. I have problems with that.

I agree with the threat regarding Sharia law. There are some very radicalized Muslims in the European nations trying to do this right now. I partially agree regarding the fundamentalist theology. While you do have some people who want to force their theology onto people's lives, you don't have the threat of radical Christians forming areas of the country where the police won't even go into because they're so radicalized (as there are in Germany and France for example wrt radical Muslims), of such Christian radicals saying that they want to create "Christian law" zones of major cities, where their "Christian law" will dominate (in London for example, some radical Muslims want to create Sharia law-controlled areas). And some could say such acts are just of some radicals who shouldn't be taken seriously, but if a group of radical Christians decided to put up posters in neighborhoods of major American cities declaring them "(insert radical Christian theology) zones" it would probably be all over the news.
 
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  • #214
turbo said:
We have scare-mongers on the right warning against the establishment of "Sharia Law" in the US, but some of them appear to want to establish fundamentalist theology as a foundation of our government. I have problems with that.

Has Santorum (topic of thread) indicated that he wants "to establish fundamentalist theology as a foundation of our government" - or are you referring to comments made by someone else?
 
  • #217
It's just funny watching him try to lie about it.
 
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  • #218
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=F0XkXRoT558
Re: a date night with Obama. I wondered if Santorum knew how much praise he was heaping on Obama ... then

oh you oh you ... but this is a waste of money ... use yer local bar eh pres.
Impress the country or impress your date ... ? hehehe

when the Prez does a date ... why hold back.

( personaly ... I hope the prez is a 'mile high' club member on AirForce1 ... I would be. :) )
 
  • #219
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57384204-503544/santorum-obama-wants-to-indoctrinate-students-by-boosting-college-enrollment/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.4

On the president's efforts to boost college attendance, Santorum said, "I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely ... The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."

The man's a loon.
 
  • #220
Office_Shredder said:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57384204-503544/santorum-obama-wants-to-indoctrinate-students-by-boosting-college-enrollment/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.4
The man's a loon.

I'm not an American, but for the sake of that (and my own) country, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't get elected.
 
  • #221
Hobin said:
I'm not an American, but for the sake of that (and my own) country, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't get elected.
I don't think he will, but then I didn't think that G.W. Bush would get elected either. Of course in the first election he didn't actually get elected. Maybe the same sort of thing could happen with Santorum or ... Romney. Considering this, maybe I will vote for Obama.
 
  • #222
Ah, well, we're just kids in a sandbox for grown-ups.

Exorcist.jpg


(I am the one most to the left.)
 
  • #223
Does anyone want to discuss Santorum's voting record or comments about the economy (very pro-manufacturing) or foreign policy (very tough on Iran)?
 
  • #224
WhoWee said:
Does anyone want to discuss Santorum's voting record or comments about the economy (very pro-manufacturing) or foreign policy (very tough on Iran)?
I'd prefer to focus on his religious fanaticism. But if you have something to offer in favor of Santorum, then what is it?
 
  • #225
ThomasT said:
I'd prefer to focus on his religious fanaticism. But if you have something to offer in favor of Santorum, then what is it?

Has he ever given a religious speech on the floor of the US Senate?
 
  • #226
WhoWee said:
Has he ever given a religious speech on the floor of the US Senate?
I don't know. I only watch C-Span intermittently. It would be cool, imho, but I don't think he's that stupid. Then again, I'm just waiting for some sort of quote like "God told me to ... " whatever. I just hope it doesn't happen while he's president. But I don't really think there's much chance of that happening.
 
  • #227
ThomasT said:
I don't know. I only watch C-Span intermittently. It would be cool, imho, but I don't think he's that stupid. Then again, I'm just waiting for some sort of quote like "God told me to ... " whatever. I just hope it doesn't happen while he's president. But I don't really think there's much chance of that happening.

I've watched Santorum for a long time - he's all business. This emphasis on social policy has been media driven - IMO.
 
  • #228
WhoWee said:
I've watched Santorum for a long time - he's all business. This emphasis on social policy has been media driven - IMO.
So, you don't think he's a religious fanatic? What, just a good actor appealing to the religious right base?
 
  • #229
Does anyone if this forum seriously think they'll vote for him?

Santorum is not merely engaged in a culture war, but “a spiritual war,” as he called it four years ago. “The Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country — the United States of America,” he told students at Ave Maria University in Florida. He added that mainline Protestantism in this country “is in shambles. It is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.”

Satan strikes, a Catholic exorcist told me, when there are “soul wounds.” Santorum, who is considered “too Catholic” even by my über-Catholic brothers, clearly believes that America’s soul wounds include men and women having sex for reasons other than procreation, people involved in same-sex relationships, women using contraception or having prenatal testing, environmentalists who elevate “the Earth above man,” women working outside the home, “anachronistic” public schools, Mormonism (which he said is considered “a dangerous cult” by some Christians), and President Obama (whom he obliquely and oddly compared to Hitler and accused of having “some phony theology”).
Bolding mine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/opinion/dowd-ricks-religious-fanaticism.html?_r=1
 
  • #230
Evo said:
Does anyone if this forum seriously think they'll vote for him?
He's a strange person ... to me. But, apparently, not so strange to, maybe, about half of America. Scary? Maybe. But then I remember the environement I grew up in. For example, African Americans were prohibited by law from being within the town limits after 6 pm. The evangelical Baptist church reigned supreme, even in a town which was predominantly Catholic.

As far as I can tell, it isn't a whole lot different today. I'm just glad I left. But the point is that a large part of America is in tune with Santorum and other Christian religious zealots. Better than fundamentalist Muslims I guess. At least I know what I'm dealing with. But sort of sad, imho, nonetheless.
 
  • #231
Since Santorum's religious statements are the only topic of discussion - when he said (from the above posted New York Times Opinion Page) "“Satan has his sights on the United States of America,” " - wasn't he trying metaphorically to say the US is a "good place" - and if we're not careful - it will become a bad place?
 
  • #232
WhoWee said:
Since Santorum's religious statements are the only topic of discussion - when he said (from the above posted New York Times Opinion Page) "“Satan has his sights on the United States of America,” " - wasn't he trying metaphorically to say the US is a "good place" - and if we're not careful - it will become a bad place?
It could be taken that way. But he, like other devout Christians I've known, seems to believe that there actually is a supernatural being, Satan, with extended human-like traits, and who is the precipitator of evil in the world.

I don't think he takes the mythological constructs of Christianity as metaphors. I think he's operating from a literalist understanding of the Christian bible.

I don't want to think he's that ... backward. But he did after all say it the way he said it.
 
  • #233
From the link in post #193 - my bold - he's his own worst enemy. my color change

"PHOENIX--Rick Santorum on Tuesday stood by comments he made in 2008 about Satan attacking the United States, telling reporters here that he is going to “stay on message” and continue to talk about jobs, security, and “taking on forces around this world who want to do harm to America.”

The three-year-old speech is getting renewed scrutiny after several Web-based publications circulated audio and text of his remarks over the holiday weekend. Speaking to a group at Ave Maria University in Naples, Fla., Santorum said, “This is not a political war at all. This is not a cultural war at all. This is a spiritual war. And the Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies, Satan, would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country: the United States of America.”

When reporters asked about the comments at a rally on Tuesday evening, Santorum said, “I believe in good and evil. I think if somehow or another, because you’re a person of faith, you believe in good and evil [and it’s] a disqualifier for president, we’re going to have a very small pool of candidates who can run for president.”
Asked whether he still thinks that Satan is attacking the United States, Santorum called the inquiry “not relevant to what’s being discussed in America today.”

“If they want to dig up old speeches of me talking to religious groups, they can go ahead and do so, but I’m going to stay on message and I’m going to talk about things that Americans want to talk about,” Santorum said, “which is creating jobs, making our country more secure, and, yeah, taking on the forces around his world who want to do harm to America, and you bet I will take them on.”

Earlier, he pledged to “defend everything I say” after noting that people might worry about his statements because he isn’t “robotic” like some of the more “commoditized candidates.”"
 
  • #234
WhoWee said:
... he's his own worst enemy. ...
Only wrt people who don't believe as he does. The problem is that there are lots of people who do believe as he does.
 
  • #235
ThomasT said:
Only wrt people who don't believe as he does. The problem is that there are lots of people who do believe as he does.

Isn't that the point of an election?
 
  • #236
ThomasT said:
Only wrt people who don't believe as he does. The problem is that there are lots of people who do believe as he does.

Isn't the whole point of campaigning to attract a larger base? If he stops commenting - it will go away. Let's not forget, there will be two people (along with their running mates) in the general election. If old comments are fair game for one candidate - they will be fair game for the other. IMO - everyone would prefer to focus on the present and future given the economy, the national debt, the Middle East, etc.
 
  • #237
mege said:
Isn't that the point of an election?
WhoWee suggested that Santorum is his own worst enemy. I suggested that, wrt about half of America, he isn't. Wrt the Christian Right we could say that Obama is his own worst enemy. And so on.
 
  • #238
WhoWee said:
Isn't the whole point of campaigning to attract a larger base?
Of course. I just commented on your "he's his own worst enemy" comment. Wrt who is he his own worst enemy? Obviously, imo, not wrt extreme Christians.

WhoWee said:
If he stops commenting - it will go away.
His fundamental base? Yes, I agree. But you seemed to suggest that his comments were hurting him. And I agree that his comments hurt him wrt people outside his fundamental extremist Christian base.

WhoWee said:
IMO - everyone would prefer to focus on the present and future given the economy, the national debt, the Middle East, etc.
When a candidate's opinions/policies are based on a belief in the canons of ancient mythology, then I think this affects his fitness wrt the responsibilities of the chief executive. That is, the single most important thing to consider about Santorum is, imo, the fact that he's a theistic religious fanatic. This apparent fact is, by itself, enough for me to exclude him from consideration. And, this apparent fact is, by itself, enough for many Americans, maybe about half eventually, to consider him the only acceptable candidate.
 
  • #239
ThomasT said:
WhoWee suggested that Santorum is his own worst enemy. I suggested that, wrt about half of America, he isn't. Wrt the Christian Right we could say that Obama is his own worst enemy. And so on.

Please stay focused on Santorum - comments about Obama are off topic.
 
  • #240
ThomasT said:
Of course. I just commented on your "he's his own worst enemy" comment. Wrt who is he his own worst enemy? Obviously, imo, not wrt extreme Christians.

His fundamental base? Yes, I agree. But you seemed to suggest that his comments were hurting him. And I agree that his comments hurt him wrt people outside his fundamental extremist Christian base.

When a candidate's opinions/policies are based on a belief in the canons of ancient mythology, then I think this affects his fitness wrt the responsibilities of the chief executive. That is, the single most important thing to consider about Santorum is, imo, the fact that he's a theistic religious fanatic. This apparent fact is, by itself, enough for me to exclude him from consideration. And, this apparent fact is, by itself, enough for many Americans, maybe about half eventually, to consider him the only acceptable candidate.

I don't think the general public is so one dimensional in their thinking that only social issues or religious beliefs will determine the fate of the candidate - unless the other issues (economy, foreign affairs, pending legislation, recently enacted legislation, court appointments, budget/failure to budget, taxes, deicits) are not equally considered.
 
  • #241
If we can advance this - I think Santorum was his own worst enemy (with his base including the TEA Party) when he called politics a team sport in the AZ debate.
 
  • #242
WhoWee said:
Please stay focused on Santorum - comments about Obama are off topic.
It's not off topic if it helps to illustrate a point about the topic. :smile:
 
  • #243
WhoWee said:
I don't think the general public is so one dimensional in their thinking that only social issues or religious beliefs will determine the fate of the candidate - unless the other issues (economy, foreign affairs, pending legislation, recently enacted legislation, court appointments, budget/failure to budget, taxes, deicits) are not equally considered.
I don't that the other issues are equally considered. That is, I don't think they're as important to Santorum's base, or those outside his base, as his religiosity.
 
  • #244
ThomasT said:
It's not off topic if it helps to illustrate a point about the topic. :smile:

I'm not certain that is correct.
 
  • #245
WhoWee said:
If we can advance this - I think Santorum was his own worst enemy (with his base including the TEA Party) when he called politics a team sport in the AZ debate.
Ok, that might well be the case. Do you happen to have a link for that handy. If not, I'll Google it.
 
  • #246
WhoWee said:
I'm not certain that is correct.
Apparently it isn't, at least as far as you're concerned. :smile: Anyway, your points are taken.
 
  • #247
ThomasT said:
I don't that the other issues are equally considered. That is, I don't think they're as important to Santorum's base, or those outside his base, as his religiosity.

You don't think the economy, deficits, and foreign affairs (for instance) are as important to Santorum's base as his "religiosity"?
 
  • #248
WhoWee said:
You don't think the economy, deficits, and foreign affairs (for instance) are as important to Santorum's base as his "religiosity"?
No. That's my current opinion.
 
  • #249
ThomasT said:
Ok, that might well be the case. Do you happen to have a link for that handy. If not, I'll Google it.

Sure.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...am-sport-126/2012/02/23/gIQArff4VR_video.html

"Santorum: 'Politics is a team sport' (1:26)
Feb. 23, 2012 - When discussing his support of the No Child Left Behind policy at the Republican debate on Wednesday night, Rick Santorum said he took 'one for the team' to support a policy that was a priority to President George W. Bush. (Feb. 23) (/Courtesy of CNN) "

He was booed. Even Rush Limbaugh commented:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73223.html

"Rush Limbaugh said he “cringed” when Rick Santorum blurted out during Wednesday night’s Republican debate that “politics is a team sport” to explain his voting record – a line that his opponents have quickly seized on to paint the GOP candidate as a clear-cut Washington insider.

“Santorum is getting creamed. I cringed when I heard him say this. Santorum is getting creamed for the team player comment,” Limbaugh said on his radio show Thursday. “I heard it, I looked at [my wife] Kathryn, and I said, ‘There’s going to be hell to pay for that one,’ because I knew that Santorum opponents, both from the left and right, were going to harp on it.”"
 
  • #250
WhoWee said:
Sure.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...am-sport-126/2012/02/23/gIQArff4VR_video.html

"Santorum: 'Politics is a team sport' (1:26)
Feb. 23, 2012 - When discussing his support of the No Child Left Behind policy at the Republican debate on Wednesday night, Rick Santorum said he took 'one for the team' to support a policy that was a priority to President George W. Bush. (Feb. 23) (/Courtesy of CNN) "

He was booed. Even Rush Limbaugh commented:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73223.html

"Rush Limbaugh said he “cringed” when Rick Santorum blurted out during Wednesday night’s Republican debate that “politics is a team sport” to explain his voting record – a line that his opponents have quickly seized on to paint the GOP candidate as a clear-cut Washington insider.

“Santorum is getting creamed. I cringed when I heard him say this. Santorum is getting creamed for the team player comment,” Limbaugh said on his radio show Thursday. “I heard it, I looked at [my wife] Kathryn, and I said, ‘There’s going to be hell to pay for that one,’ because I knew that Santorum opponents, both from the left and right, were going to harp on it.”"
Yeah, he came off as a bit weak on that one in the sense that he did something against his principles. I'm not sure what principle he violated. Surely not testing. Spending?
 

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