Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the feasibility of secure deletion of files in Java, particularly focusing on whether overwriting a file guarantees that the original data is irretrievable. Participants explore the implications of different storage technologies, such as HDDs and SSDs, and the role of operating systems in file management.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Technical explanation
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- Some participants question whether writing over a file in Java guarantees that the original data is overwritten on the physical disk, or if it merely marks the original block as unused.
- There is a suggestion that the operating system handles file access and overwriting, but the specifics of how this is done (e.g., whether the same physical block is overwritten) remain unclear.
- Some argue that secure deletion methods may differ between HDDs and SSDs, with SSDs potentially requiring low-level methods not accessible through standard Java APIs.
- Concerns are raised about the effectiveness of overwriting files multiple times and whether the operating system might cache data, leading to incomplete overwriting.
- Participants discuss the possibility of using random gibberish to overwrite files before deletion, but question whether this truly ensures that the original data cannot be recovered.
- There is a mention of historical system calls that might allow direct access to the file system, but uncertainty exists about their current applicability in modern operating systems.
- Some participants express skepticism about the guarantees provided by secure deletion applications, noting that the effectiveness of such methods is debated.
- A scenario is presented where a program needs to securely delete part of itself, raising questions about the feasibility of achieving this securely across varied machines.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants do not reach a consensus on the effectiveness of secure deletion methods in Java. Multiple competing views exist regarding the implications of overwriting files, the behavior of operating systems, and the differences between HDDs and SSDs.
Contextual Notes
Limitations include the uncertainty surrounding how operating systems manage file overwriting, the potential for data caching, and the lack of access to low-level disk operations through Java. Additionally, the discussion highlights the complexity of ensuring secure deletion across different storage technologies.
Who May Find This Useful
This discussion may be of interest to software developers, data security professionals, and anyone concerned with data privacy and secure file management in programming environments.