Is Symmetry on μ and α Valid for the Derivative of the Metric Tensor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties of the metric tensor, specifically the symmetry of its derivative with respect to its indices. Participants explore whether the identity involving the derivative of the metric tensor, gμν,α = gαν,μ, holds true and delve into related operations such as symmetrization and antisymmetrization.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of the symmetry of the derivative of the metric tensor, suggesting that gμν,α = gαν,μ may not hold.
  • Counterexamples are provided, particularly referencing the FLRW metric, where certain derivatives of the metric tensor are shown to be nonzero while others are zero, indicating a lack of symmetry.
  • There is a discussion about the operations of symmetrization and antisymmetrization, with some participants asserting that these operations are not applicable to gμν,α since it is not considered a tensor due to the nature of partial differentiation.
  • One participant seeks clarification on how to derive a specific expression related to the Christoffel Symbol from the derivative of the metric tensor.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the distinction between the operations being discussed, indicating a need for clearer definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity of the symmetry of the derivative of the metric tensor, with multiple competing views presented. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the applicability of symmetrization and antisymmetrization to the derivative of the metric tensor.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unclear definitions of symmetrization and antisymmetrization in the context of derivatives of tensors, as well as the implications of the non-tensorial nature of gμν,α due to partial differentiation.

kent davidge
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I was thinking about the metric tensor. Given a metric gμν we know that it is symmetric on its two indices. If we have gμν,α (the derivative of the metric with respect to xα), is it also valid to consider symmetry on μ and α? i.e. is the identity gμν,α = gαν,μ valid?
 
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It is not valid. A counterexample is the FLRW metric, in which ##g_{11,0}## is nonzero because the metric changes over time with the expansion of the cosmos, while ##g_{01,1}## is zero because ##g_{01}## is uniformly zero.
 
andrewkirk said:
It is not valid. A counterexample is the FLRW metric, in which ##g_{11,0}## is nonzero because the metric changes over time with the expansion of the cosmos, while ##g_{01,1}## is zero because ##g_{01}## is uniformly zero.
How would it look if we symmetrize / antisymmetrize it on its first and third indices (μ and α)?
 
What do you mean by symmetrise/antisymmetrise? In my understanding those are operations one performs on a tensor, and ##g_{ab,c}## is not a tensor, because partial differentiation (what the 'comma' does) is not a valid tensor operation.
 
andrewkirk said:
What do you mean by symmetrise/antisymmetrise? In my understanding those are operations one performs on a tensor, and ##g_{ab,c}## is not a tensor, because partial differentiation (what the 'comma' does) is not a valid tensor operation.
I'm sorry. Actually I mean how could we obtain gμα,β + gμβ,α - gαβ,μ from gαβ,μ. (I'm trying to derive the Christoffel Symbol to put it in the geodesic equation.)
 
kent davidge said:
I'm sorry. Actually I mean how could we obtain gμα,β + gμβ,α - gαβ,μ from gαβ,μ. (I'm trying to derive the Christoffel Symbol to put it in the geodesic equation.)
You are being unclear. These are not the same things.
 

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