Is the collapse of a wave function deterministic or random?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of wave function collapse in quantum mechanics, specifically whether it is deterministic or random. Participants explore theoretical implications, measurement processes, and the role of entanglement in determining outcomes. The conversation includes conceptual clarifications and technical reasoning related to quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that wave function collapse is inherently random, as knowing the wave function only provides probabilities for measurement outcomes.
  • Others suggest that if the measuring instrument's wave function is known, it could, in principle, predict the particle's position during measurement, although this is contested.
  • One participant notes that without measurement, a particle does not have a defined position, but entangled particles can allow for predictable outcomes based on measurements of their counterparts.
  • Some participants discuss Bell's theorem, indicating that it shows particles do not have determinate positions before measurement, yet it does not rule out deterministic collapse mechanisms.
  • There is a suggestion that if a deterministic mechanism for collapse exists, it should allow for deducing a particle's position without measurement, which is challenged by others who argue that the particle's position remains indeterminate prior to measurement.
  • One participant introduces the analogy of a ripple on water to describe the particle's state before measurement, emphasizing the transition to a determinate position upon measurement.
  • Concerns are raised about what determines the outcome of the collapse, with references to Bell's variables and the implications of superdeterminism being discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of wave function collapse, with no consensus reached on whether it is deterministic or random. The discussion remains unresolved, with various hypotheses and interpretations being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the collapse process, including the dependence on definitions of determinism and randomness, as well as the unresolved nature of certain mathematical aspects related to wave function collapse.

  • #31
Happiness said:
But if there is no collapse, then the different eigenstates superimpose and produce an interference pattern (say, of a double-slits experiment). If the wave function collapses to a single eigenstate, then the interference pattern is destroyed. So the final result is different.
It would mean that you're in a superposition of conscious states. How would you know that? Is there any experiment that can differentiate when the collapse occurs? The apparent lack of self-eating cat suggests that many possibilities are lost as the wave function involves more and more of the macroscopic world. But even that does not suggest that a full collapse ever happens.
 

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