Is the Frictional Force on a Block Pushed Against a Wall 4.9N or 7.2N?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a block pushed against a vertical wall by a horizontal force, examining the frictional force and normal force in relation to the block's weight and the coefficients of static and kinetic friction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the applied force, normal force, and frictional force, questioning how these forces interact given the block's weight and the coefficients of friction.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the implications of the forces involved, with some suggesting that the normal force is equal to the applied force, while others are questioning the assumptions about the frictional force when the block is at rest. There is no explicit consensus on the correct answer, but various interpretations of the forces are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between static and kinetic friction, noting that the maximum static friction force is not necessarily the frictional force acting when the block is at rest. There is also mention of the weight of the block and its role in determining the frictional force.

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Homework Statement


A horizontal force of 12 N pushes a 0.5-kg block against a vertical wall. The block is initially at rest. If us = 0.6 and uk = 0.8, which of the following is true?
(a) The frictional force is 4.9N
(b) The frictional force is 7.2N
(c) The normal force is 4.9
(d) The block will start moving and accelerate
(e) If started moving downward, the block will decelerate

Homework Equations


fk = UkN
N = mg

The Attempt at a Solution


N = 0.5kg * 9.8m/s2 = 4.9

I marked down the answer as C, but I was wrong...
 
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I think the friction is related only to the 12N and not to the mg component.
So the reaction force at the wall is equal to 12N.
12*us=7.2N (b)
and we can disprove (d) and (e) by stating 0.5*9.81=4.9N
The mass of the block is not great enough to overcome friction.

Short answer: (b)
 
I'm still having a hard time understanding how you knew it was B.
 
1. The normal force is the force of the wall perpendicular to the block.
2. The friction force between the wall and block, which is u_k(N) if the block moves, or less than or equal to u_s(N) if it doesn't move, acts parallel to the wall , upward.
3. The weight of the block acts parallel to the wall, downward.

So the correct answer is________________??
 
ahh so the Normal force is actually 12 N (horizontal).
The frictional force is then 12*.6 = 7.2

And like craigman proved, the block is not moving, so it can't be D or E.

Makes sense. So the answer is B.

thanks
 
hansel13 said:
ahh so the Normal force is actually 12 N (horizontal).
The frictional force is then 12*.6 = 7.2

And like craigman proved, the block is not moving, so it can't be D or E.

Makes sense. So the answer is B.

thanks
But what's the weight of the block? If the block is not moving, what must the friction force be?
 
PhanthomJay said:
But what's the weight of the block? If the block is not moving, what must the friction force be?

The weight is 0.5kg, no?

If the block is not moving, the frictional force (7.2 N) must be than F = m * a = .5 * 9.8 = 4.9... Which it appears to be.
 
hansel13 said:
The weight is 0.5kg, no?
that's the mass, the weight is 4.9N
If the block is not moving, the frictional force (7.2 N) must be than F = m * a = .5 * 9.8 = 4.9... Which it appears to be.
I'm not sure if you answered the question. The weight down is 4.9N, and the block is not moving. Thus the friction force acting up, in accord with Newton 1, must be equal to ________________??
 
Well then the friction force must be 4.9 as well. So A.
 
  • #10
hansel13 said:
Well then the friction force must be 4.9 as well. So A.

Yes. A common oversight is to assume that F_f(static) = u_s(N), but that is its maximum value, only true when the block is just on the verge of moving with respect to the surface it is in contact with. Otherwise , in general, F_f is less than or equal to u_s(N). For dynamic or kinetic friction, F_f(kinetic) = u_k(N), always.
 
  • #11
If the block were in contact with the ground and not the wall, the friction force would be calculated by 9.81*0.5*u=friction force.
In this case gravity does not actually push the block into the wall and the force of m*g is acting perpandicular to the wall, which means only the horizontal force of 12N is acting to be a multiplier in the friction equation.
 

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