Is the Integral Finite for $n$ Fixed?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter evinda
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Finite Integral
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the finiteness of the integral $$\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} dx$$ for a fixed natural number $n$ and a positive parameter $\lambda$. Participants explore the implications of various inequalities and bounds related to the integral, considering both the mathematical reasoning and the behavior of the integral as $n$ approaches infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the integral can be bounded using the inequality $$e^{2 \lambda x^2} \geq \frac{(2 \lambda x^2)^n}{n!}$$ leading to a potential upper bound for the integral.
  • Another participant points out that the integral $$\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} \frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n} dx$$ is not finite, questioning the validity of the earlier steps.
  • A later reply suggests that the bounds derived may not be the best utility for the problem and encourages revisiting the inequality to explore further implications.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the derived bounds, noting that as $n$ approaches infinity, the bounds suggest the integral diverges, but emphasize that for fixed $n$, the integral remains finite.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that for fixed $n$, the integral is finite based on the derived bounds. However, there is disagreement regarding the behavior of the integral as $n$ approaches infinity, with some participants noting that the bounds indicate divergence.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the analysis relies on specific inequalities and bounds, which may not fully capture the behavior of the integral in all cases. The discussion remains focused on fixed values of $n$, with implications for limits not fully resolved.

evinda
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,741
Reaction score
0
Let $\lambda$ be a positive number and $n$ a natural number. I want to show that

$$\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} dx<+\infty.$$

There is the following hint: $e^{\lambda x^2} \geq \frac{1}{n!}(\lambda x^2)^n$, thus $x^{2n} e^{-\lambda x^2}\leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n}$.I have done the following:We have that $$e^{2 \lambda x^2} \geq \frac{(2 \lambda x^2)^n}{n!}.$$

Then

$$e^{-2 \lambda x^2} \leq \frac{n!}{(2 \lambda x^2)^n} \Rightarrow x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} \leq \frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n}$$But the integral $\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} \frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n} dx$ isn't finite. Is it?

So have I done something wrong? Or can we not use the hint? (Thinking)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi evinda,

evinda said:
But the integral $\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} \frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n} dx$ isn't finite. Is it?

This improper integral does not exist, because, by the definition of $\displaystyle\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n}\,dx,$ the two separate integrals $\displaystyle\int_{c}^{\infty}\frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n}\,dx$ and $\displaystyle\int_{-\infty}^{c}\frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n}\,dx$ must both exist/converge (Note: The value of $c$ can be fixed arbitrarily, though typically it is taken to be zero).

evinda said:
There is the following hint: $e^{\lambda x^2} \geq \frac{1}{n!}(\lambda x^2)^n$, thus $x^{2n} e^{-\lambda x^2}\leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n}$.I have done the following:We have that $$e^{2 \lambda x^2} \geq \frac{(2 \lambda x^2)^n}{n!}.$$

Then

$$e^{-2 \lambda x^2} \leq \frac{n!}{(2 \lambda x^2)^n} \Rightarrow x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} \leq \frac{n!}{2^n \lambda^n}$$

So have I done something wrong? Or can we not use the hint? (Thinking)

You didn't do anything wrong, your work is reasonably thought out. It is commonplace when working in analysis to derive bounds that are not of the best utility for the problem at hand. I would suggest going back to the inequality $x^{2n} e^{-\lambda x^2}\leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n}$ and multiplying both sides by $e^{-\lambda x^{2}}$ and see what you can do from there.
 
Ok, so then we have that $x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} \leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n} e^{-\lambda x^2}$.

Thus, $\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} dx \leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n} \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} e^{-\lambda x^2} dx=\sqrt{\frac{\pi}{\lambda}} \frac{n!}{\lambda^n}$.

And do we check what happens when $n \to +\infty$ at the last quantity that we got? Or is it finite since it doesn't depend on $x$ ? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
Ok, so then we have that $x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} \leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n} e^{-\lambda x^2}$.

Thus, $\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} dx \leq \frac{n!}{\lambda^n} \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} e^{-\lambda x^2} dx=\sqrt{\frac{\pi}{\lambda}} \frac{n!}{\lambda^n}$.

This is correct, well done!

evinda said:
And do we check what happens when $n \to +\infty$ at the last quantity that we got? Or is it finite since it doesn't depend on $x$ ? (Thinking)

Good question. We were asked to show that for $n$ fixed the integral is finite, which you have done. If you were to take the limit as $n\rightarrow \infty$, however, you would find that the bounds for the sequence of integral values corresponding to $n=1, 2, 3,\ldots$ goes to infinity (because factorials grow more rapidly than exponentials). Because we are dealing with upper bounds, we cannot deduce anything about the limit
$$\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} dx$$
from this information alone.
 
Last edited:
GJA said:
This is correct, well done!
Good question. We were asked to show that for $n$ fixed the integral is finite, which you have done. If you were to take the limit as $n\rightarrow \infty$, however, you would find that the bounds for the sequence of integral values corresponding to $n=1, 2, 3,\ldots$ goes to infinity (because factorials grow more rapidly than exponentials). Because we are dealing with upper bounds, we cannot deduce anything about the limit
$$\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}x^{2n} e^{-2 \lambda x^2} dx$$
from this information alone.

I see... thanks a lot! (Smile)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K