Is the Set S={(x,y) in R^2 | xy≠1} Open in R^2?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the set S = {(x,y) in R^2 | xy ≠ 1} is open in R^2. Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate the openness of the set, including direct methods and considering the complement of S.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests constructing an open ball around points in S and checking if the intersection with the set where xy = 1 is empty, but expresses uncertainty about the properties of the distance function.
  • Another participant proposes that it might be easier to prove that the complement of S is closed.
  • There is a reiteration that a set is closed if its complement is open, prompting further exploration of this approach.
  • A participant questions whether splitting the cases of xy < 1 and xy > 1 would simplify the proof of openness.
  • One participant mentions the concept of boundedness in metric spaces and attempts to relate it to constructing an open ball.
  • Another participant checks if the concept of continuity has been learned, indicating that it could simplify the proof.
  • A suggestion is made to consider a contradiction by assuming S is not open and deriving a sequence that leads to a contradiction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the best approach to prove the openness of the set S, with some favoring direct proof and others suggesting the complement method. The discussion remains unresolved as no consensus is reached on the most effective strategy.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about certain properties of the reals and the definitions of open and closed sets in metric spaces, which may affect their reasoning.

alligatorman
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I want to show that the set [tex]S=\{(x,y)\in \mathbb{R}^2 | xy\neq1\}[/tex] is open.

I'm having trouble forming the open ball contained in S centered at each point in S. The idea I have is:

Let [tex]q\in S[/tex]. Then select an open ball [tex]B_r(q), r\in\mathbb{R}[/tex]. Let [tex]P=\{(x,y)\in B_r(q)|xy=1\}[/tex]. If P is empty, we are done. If P is not empty, then create an open ball [tex]B_m(q),[/tex] where [tex]m=\min\{d(q-c)|c\in B_r(q)\}[/tex] (d is the distance function). Then we are done.

However, I feel like this isn't sufficient because it has not been shown whether [tex]\{d(q-c)|c\in B_r(q)\}[/tex] actually does have a minimum, or if it contains elements tending to 0. Am I just missing a property of the reals somewhere? I hope so. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Don't you think is easier to prove that [itex]S^c[/itex] is closed?
 
In metric spaces, a set is defined to be closed if it's complement is open.
 
Is there any way you can leverage your knowledge of the topology of R to help?
 
alligatorman said:
In metric spaces, a set is defined to be closed if it's complement is open.

True, so why don't you prove that the complement of S is closed?
 
AiRAVATA said:
True, so why don't you prove that the complement of S is closed?

Are you suggesting to prove by contradiction that it is closed? I'm not sure how to go about that because the only definition of closed I have is that it's complement is open.
 
If x is in the set {(x,y)| xy is not equal to 1} then obviously either xy< 1 or xy>1. Why not look at the two cases separately?
 
I could, but how would proving that the set is open be any easier when the cases are split up? I would still have to construct a ball such for each (x,y), no matter how close I make to the boundary.

I'm looking at some theorems, and I have that any subset S of a metric space is bounded if it can be contained in a ball. I can easily contain the set of the d(s) in a ball, which then means it's bounded from above and below. So then I can create the open ball with radius from d(q, lower bound)
 
Just checking: have you yet learned what continuous means?
 
  • #10
I have not. (Not formally. I can't use it in the proof)
 
  • #11
Ah. So you could not use the fact that multiplication is continuous, and the set of real numbers not equal to 1 is open. Oh well; that's the easy way to do this problem.
 
  • #12
Suppose it's not open. Then there exists a pair (x,y) in S such that for all r>0, Br [itex]\cap[/itex] Sc is nonempty. In particular, we can do this for all r=1/n (n=1,2,3,...), and thus we obtain for each n a pair (an, bn) satisfying two properties:
(i) an * bn = 1, and
(ii) d((an, bn), (x,y)) < 1/n.

Can you show that this gives us a contradiction? (Hint: think sequences.)
 
Last edited:

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