Is the textbook wrong or am I? (circuit with resistors, switches and a battery)

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

This discussion revolves around a circuit problem involving resistors, switches, and a battery. The original poster presents a scenario where the internal resistance of a voltage source is questioned based on voltage readings when switches are manipulated.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the internal resistance and voltage across different configurations of the circuit. Some participants ask for clarification on the calculations and reasoning used to arrive at the proposed values.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the implications of the voltage readings and the assumptions made regarding the textbook's description of the voltage change. There is a suggestion that the textbook's interpretation of the voltage change may be incorrect, leading to differing conclusions about the internal resistance.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted discrepancy between the original poster's calculations and the textbook's answers, raising questions about the accuracy of the textbook. The specific wording of the textbook regarding the voltage change is also under scrutiny.

Eitan Levy
Messages
259
Reaction score
11

Homework Statement


This circuit is given:[/B]
upload_2017-12-16_18-10-55.png

Each resistor has a resistance of 30Ω, and the electrive force is 28V.
Now we shut S1, and the voltmeter displays a value lower by 10% from the previous one.
What is the internal resistance of the voltage source?
What is the voltage between the parts of S2?
Now we shut S2 (S1 stays shut), will the voltage displayed be higher of lower than the voltage displayed when only S1 closed?

Homework Equations


V=IR

The Attempt at a Solution


My answers are:
r=(20/9)Ω (Textbook says 2Ω)
V=12.6V (Again, a different answer according).
The voltage will be lower (Textbook says higher)
The book is brand new so it has some mistakes, that's why I am asking.
Thanks in advance!

*How I reached those values:
When both switches are open no current is flowing. V=28V.
When we shut S1 the new voltage become 25.2V, that means that 25.2=28-Ir (r for internal resistance).
Now the total resistance would be (60*30)/(60+30)+r=20+r. From here we can see: I=28/(20+r)
Two equations with two parameters.
I=1.26A, r=(20/9)Ω
The current on the top branch would be I/3=0.42A
The current on the branch below would be 2I/3=0.84A
The voltage: -0.42*30+0.84*30=12.6V.
Now, when we shut both switches no current would flow through the resistor right to S2.
The combined resistance becomes (30*30)/(30+30)+r, this gives a number smaller than the combined resistance before. That means the I will be higher this time, and because V=ε-Ir, V will be smaller.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2017-12-16_18-10-55.png
    upload_2017-12-16_18-10-55.png
    6.2 KB · Views: 896
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Please describe how you reached those values. If not, it is impossible for us to know if and when you go wrong in your argumentation.
 
Orodruin said:
Please describe how you reached those values. If not, it is impossible for us to know if and when you go wrong in your argumentation.
When both switches are open no current is flowing. V=28V.
When we shut S1 the new voltage become 25.2V, that means that 25.2=28-Ir (r for internal resistance).
Now the total resistance would be (60*30)/(60+30)+r=20+r. From here we can see: I=28/(20+r)
Two equations with two parameters.
I=1.26A, r=(20/9)Ω
The current on the top branch would be I/3=0.42A
The current on the branch below would be 2I/3=0.84A
The voltage: -0.42*30+0.84*30=12.6V.
Now, when we shut both switches no current would flow through the resistor right to S2.
The combined resistance becomes (30*30)/(30+30)+r, this gives a number smaller than the combined resistance before. That means the I will be higher this time, and because V=ε-Ir, V will be smaller.
Is everything correct?
 
Eitan Levy said:
Now we shut S1, and the voltmeter displays a value lower by 10% from the previous one.
I suspect your textbook assumes that ##1.1 V_1 = V_0##, i.e., the old voltage is 10% higher than the new, which is not the same as saying that the new voltage is 10% lower than the old. At least, using ##V_1 = 28/1.1## V gives the internal resistance 2 ohm.

Eitan Levy said:
The combined resistance becomes (30*30)/(30+30)+r, this gives a number smaller than the combined resistance before. That means the I will be higher this time, and because V=ε-Ir, V will be smaller.
Sounds reasonable.
 
Orodruin said:
I suspect your textbook assumes that ##1.1 V_1 = V_0##, i.e., the old voltage is 10% higher than the new, which is not the same as saying that the new voltage is 10% lower than the old. At least, using ##V_1 = 28/1.1## V gives the internal resistance 2 ohm.Sounds reasonable.
The exact words are "The new voltage equals to 90% from the previous one".
 
Eitan Levy said:
The exact words are "The new voltage equals to 90% from the previous one".
Then it does seem wrong.
 
Orodruin said:
Then it does seem wrong.
Alright, thanks.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
4K
Replies
3
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
27
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K