Is there a closed form for this?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the integral \(\int_0^∞ \ln(1+x)\,e^{-x}\,dx\) and whether it has a closed form expression. Participants explore related integrals and the implications of their behavior as \(x\) approaches infinity, as well as the differentiation of integrals involving a parameter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the existence of a closed form for the integral \(\int_0^∞ \ln(1+x)\,e^{-x}\,dx\).
  • Integration by parts suggests that the result involves the Exponential integral function \(Ei\) evaluated at -1, though opinions differ on whether this qualifies as a closed form expression.
  • One participant expresses a preference for a result in basic functions with simple derivatives.
  • Participants discuss the behavior of \(e^{-x}\) compared to \(\ln(1+x)\) as \(x\) approaches infinity, with one asserting that \(e^{-x}\) goes to zero faster than \(\ln(1+x)\) goes to infinity.
  • Another integral involving a parameter \(s\) is introduced, leading to a discussion about finding the derivative of the integral with respect to \(s\).
  • A reference to a previous discussion on the Fréchet derivative of a functional is made, indicating a more complex analysis is required.
  • Concerns are raised about how to handle the probability density function of \(x\) when seeking numerical results from the derivative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the integral has a closed form expression, and there are multiple competing views regarding the implications of the Exponential integral function. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to the parameterized integral and its derivative.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of closed form expressions and the complexity of the integrals discussed, particularly in relation to the parameter \(s\) and its derivatives.

EngWiPy
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Hi,

I have this integral:

\int_0^∞ \ln(1+x)\,e^{-x}\,dx

Is there any closed form expression for it?

Thanks
 
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S_David said:
Hi,

I have this integral:

\int_0^∞ \ln(1+x)\,e^{-x}\,dx

Is there any closed form expression for it?

Thanks
Integration by parts shows that the result contains the Exponential integral function Ei evaluated in -1.
Depends of whether you call that a closed form expression.
 
Samy_A said:
Integration by parts shows that the result contains the Exponential integral function Ei evaluated in -1.
Depends of whether you call that a closed form expression.

No, I need it in basic functions that have simple derivatives.
 
S_David said:
No, I need it in basic functions that have simple derivatives.
Well, the derivative of Ei is ##\frac{e^x}{x}##.
 
Samy_A said:
Integration by parts shows that the result contains the Exponential integral function Ei evaluated in -1.
Depends of whether you call that a closed form expression.

OK, thanks. Does ##e^{-x}## goes to zero faster than ##\ln(1+x)## goes to infility as ##x→∞##?
 
S_David said:
OK, thanks. Does ##e^{-x}## goes to zero faster than ##\ln(1+x)## goes to infility as ##x→∞##?
Yes. If not your integral wouldn't give a finite result. ##e^{-x}## also goes to zero faster than any polynomial goes to infinity as ##x→+∞##.
 
Last edited:
OK. I worked the analysis, and it won't work with me. I have something like this

<br /> \int_0^∞ \ln(1+s\,x)\,e^{-x}\,dx<br />

and I need to find

<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial s}\int_0^∞ \ln(1+s\,x)\,e^{-x}\,dx<br />

from which I need to find ##s##. The integral is a complicated function of the argument ##s##.
 
S_David said:
OK. I worked the analysis, and it won't work with me. I have something like this

<br /> \int_0^∞ \ln(1+s\,x)\,e^{-x}\,dx<br />

and I need to find

<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial s}\int_0^∞ \ln(1+s\,x)\,e^{-x}\,dx<br />

from which I need to find ##s##. The integral is a complicated function of the argument ##s##.
See https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/derivative-of-integral.853211/

As discussed there, you actually need to find the Fréchet derivative of the functional acting on the function s. I have made some comments on this in that topic, but I don't think you found them very helpful, so I will rest my case. However, I wanted to point out that this problem was already discussed.
 
Krylov said:
See https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/derivative-of-integral.853211/

As discussed there, you actually need to find the Fréchet derivative of the functional acting on the function s. I have made some comments on this in that topic, but I don't think you found them very helpful, so I will rest my case. However, I wanted to point out that this problem was already discussed.

It is not that I found your comments unhelpful, but I just wanted to know enough to do the analysis, without going into the details. If I follow the same logic as the paper I attached there, and applied it to my problem here, I will have the p.d.f of ##x## appearing in the derivative. How to handle this when I need some numerical results?
 

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