Is There a Solution to This Sequence Proof?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sid9221
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Proof Sequence
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a sequence proof, specifically examining the convergence or divergence of a series related to terms of the form \( x_n \). Participants are exploring bounds and relationships between these terms, as well as addressing potential confusion stemming from hints provided in the problem statement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to establish upper and lower bounds for the sequence terms and questioning the validity of the hints given. There is also exploration of the relationship between the terms of the sequence and whether the series converges or diverges.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered guidance on bounding the terms and suggested methods for analyzing the series. However, there is a lack of consensus regarding the convergence of the sequence, with differing opinions on whether it diverges or converges to a specific value.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the problem being from a past exam paper, which adds a layer of complexity regarding its validity and the expectations of the participants. Some participants express confusion over the hints provided and the implications of the problem's setup.

sid9221
Messages
110
Reaction score
0
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33103477/summands.png

Even with the hint, I'm confused on what to use on this ? Any ideas ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
The summand to compare with is most probably: 1/n
 
Forget the hint for a second. It's a tad bit confusing (though you will see what they mean eventually).

Can you find an upper bound for each of the ##x_n##? A lower bound?

If that's not enough to get you started ... can you establish a ... relation ... between each of the "terms" of the ##x_n##?
 
\frac{1}{n+1} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{(n+1)^2}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n+1}} < \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} < \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2}} = \frac{1}{n}

In short, we've sandwiched \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} between \frac{1}{n+1} and \frac{1}{n}
 
thrill3rnit3 said:
\frac{1}{n+1} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{(n+1)^2}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n+1}} < \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} < \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2}} = \frac{1}{n}

In short, we've sandwiched \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} between \frac{1}{n+1} and \frac{1}{n}

OK. Not exactly what I was trying to get you to do, but we might be able to make it work.

Can you get similar bounds for the other terms? The ##\frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2k}}## for ##1\leq k<n##?

While you're doing that, go ahead and figure out how many terms there are in ##x_n##.
 
Doesn't the sequence diverge?

note: n^2 + 2n ≤ 4n^2

so 1/sqrt(n^2+ 2n) ≥ 1/sqrt(4n^2) = 1/(2n). But the sum of 1/(2n) diverges.
 
The question clearly states that it converges to 1.
So everything said till now makes no sense.
 
edit: see what's going on
 
Last edited:
sid9221 said:
The question clearly states that it converges to 1.
So everything said till now makes no sense.

deluks917 said:
Doesn't the sequence diverge?

note: n^2 + 2n ≤ 4n^2

so 1/sqrt(n^2+ 2n) ≥ 1/sqrt(4n^2) = 1/(2n). But the sum of 1/(2n) diverges.

Seconded. The series diverges. You can see it goes on increasing(>2) if you try with n>9, and the proof is right here.

Edit : I just realized my mistake. I took into consideration that the general term is

T_n = \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^{2}+2n}}

But the way the series is made, it will not have this as the general term. Gopher's method would work out best.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
I think that best solution (for me) is @gopher_p solution.

You know that:

\frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+4}} + \cdots + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}}\le \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} + \cdots + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} = n\cdot \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} =\frac{n}{\sqrt{n^2+2}}

On the other hand

\frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+4}} + \cdots + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}}\ge \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} + \cdots + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} = n\cdot \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} =\frac{n}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}}

So, you have

\frac{n}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}} \le \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2}} + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+4}} + \cdots + \frac{1}{\sqrt{n^2+2n}}\le \frac{n}{\sqrt{n^2+2}}
 
  • #11
Guy's this is a past exam paper question and it has come up twice. If it was a mistake it wouldn't have come up two times in exactly the same form.

On a side note this has come up in the sequences portion of the paper(we have separate sections for different topics on the paper's easier bit), don't know if that's a hint.
 
  • #12
sid9221 said:
Guy's this is a past exam paper question and it has come up twice. If it was a mistake it wouldn't have come up two times in exactly the same form.

On a side note this has come up in the sequences portion of the paper(we have separate sections for different topics on the paper's easier bit), don't know if that's a hint.

The question is correct, there is no mistake. Karamata almost gave you the solution, all you need to see is how the sandwich limits behave when n -> infinity.
 

Similar threads

Replies
15
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K