Is there an analog to Einstein's field equations for 2D?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of understanding General Relativity (GR) without tensors and whether there exists an analog to Einstein's field equations in a two-dimensional space-time framework. Participants explore the implications of dimensionality on the use of tensors and the nature of solutions to Einstein's equations in different dimensional contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about the necessity of tensors for understanding GR, suggesting that conceptual understanding might be possible without them.
  • One participant critiques the common rubber sheet analogy used to explain gravity, indicating it oversimplifies the geometric nature of GR.
  • It is noted that the dimensionality of space does not fundamentally dictate the use of tensors; rather, tensors are necessary to describe the geometry of the manifold, including its metric and curvature.
  • Another participant states that while the mathematical form of Einstein's equations remains the same in 3D and 4D space-times, the solutions differ significantly, with 3D vacuum solutions yielding zero curvature.
  • Some participants seek resources for learning about tensors, indicating a desire to improve their mathematical understanding related to GR.
  • It is mentioned that in two dimensions, curvature can be fully described by a scalar, although the curvature tensor is still defined.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of tensors in describing the geometry of space-time, but there is no consensus on whether GR can be understood without them. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of a direct analog to Einstein's equations in 2D space-time.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted regarding the understanding of GR without tensors, as well as the implications of dimensionality on curvature and solutions to Einstein's equations. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with mathematical concepts among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in the foundational concepts of General Relativity, the role of tensors in physics, and the implications of dimensionality in theoretical frameworks.

Cathr
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I am not familiar with tensors and I would like to know if it's possible to understand GR without using them. I imagine we use them to describe four-dimensional space-time, because a regular vector or matrix wouldn't be enough.

Is there an analog of Einstein's equations for a 2D space (plane) and time, therefore a 3 dimensional space-time?
 
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You can only understand it in a conceptual sense without tensors. The common but flawed approach is the rubber sheet analogy with a bowling ball as some gravitating body and a marble that rolls around it, orbits it and eventually hits the bowling ball as its orbit decays.You can't read too much into other than geometry an dictate how an object moves.

Here's a book by Benjamin Crowell on General Relativity that initially lays out the theory without any heavy math and can give you a good understanding of what's covered by it:

http://www.lightandmatter.com/genrel/
 
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Cathr said:
I am not familiar with tensors and I would like to know if it's possible to understand GR without using them. I imagine we use them to describe four-dimensional space-time, because a regular vector or matrix wouldn't be enough.

Is there an analog of Einstein's equations for a 2D space (plane) and time, therefore a 3 dimensional space-time?
We use tensors because it is not sufficient with vectors due to the concepts we wish to describe, not due to the dimensionality of the space. In fact, the dimensionality of the space has very little to do with things. We use tensors because they describe the concepts necessary to handle the geometry of the manifold, such as its metric and curvature. For example, the Riemann curvature tensor is a type (1,3) tensor regardless of the dimensionality of the manifold (in one dimension it will automatically vanish, but that is besides the point).
 
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Cathr said:
I am not familiar with tensors and I would like to know if it's possible to understand GR without using them. I imagine we use them to describe four-dimensional space-time, because a regular vector or matrix wouldn't be enough.

Is there an analog of Einstein's equations for a 2D space (plane) and time, therefore a 3 dimensional space-time?

Einstein's equation has the same mathematical form in 3-dimensional spacetime as in 4-dimensional spacetime. There is, however, a big difference in solutions. In 4-dimensional spacetime, there exist vacuum solutions of Einstein's equation (without cosmological constant) for which spacetime has non-zero curvature, e.g., Schwarzschild. In 3-dimensional spacetime, all vacuum solutions of Einstein's equation (without cosmological constant) have zero curvature.
 
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@Orodruin @George Jones Thank you, I didn't know about that. It definitely means I should boost my math skills. Do you know any good soorces that explain tensors for beginners?
 
Cathr said:
@Orodruin @George Jones Thank you, I didn't know about that. It definitely means I should boost my math skills. Do you know any good soorces that explain tensors for beginners?
Fundamental tensor analysis should be available in any book covering mathematical methods in physics. Of course, there are also books focusing om tensors and delving deeper into differential geometry. It depends on what your level and goals are.
 
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Thank you!
 
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Thank you!
 
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Orodruin said:
We use tensors because it is not sufficient with vectors due to the concepts we wish to describe, not due to the dimensionality of the space. In fact, the dimensionality of the space has very little to do with things. We use tensors because they describe the concepts necessary to handle the geometry of the manifold, such as its metric and curvature. For example, the Riemann curvature tensor is a type (1,3) tensor regardless of the dimensionality of the manifold (in one dimension it will automatically vanish, but that is besides the point).
Also, in two dimensions, curvature is fully described by a scalar, though, of course, the curvature tensor is defined as well; its components all being derivable from scalar curvature.
 
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