Is this relation equivalence relation ?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining whether the relation defined by \(x^y = y^x\) for integers \(x\) and \(y\) is an equivalence relation. Participants are exploring the properties of reflexivity, symmetry, and transitivity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to prove transitivity by manipulating the equations derived from the relation, while others question the validity of these manipulations. There is a debate over the correctness of different approaches to proving transitivity.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants expressing frustration over differing conclusions regarding transitivity. Some suggest that both methods presented could lead to valid interpretations, while others are seeking clarity on the implications of the derived equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the relation may not yield equivalence classes containing three or more members, as they identify specific pairs of integers that satisfy the relation. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of the relation in forming larger equivalence classes.

jd12345
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Homework Statement


Relation is x^y = y^x...x and y belong to integers

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution


Well i have already proven that they are reflexive and symmetric. I have doubt with transitive
I did the follwoing way x^y = y^x...(1) and y^z = z^y...(2)
from(1) x^z = y^(zx/y)
from(2) z^x = y^(zx/y)
Therefore x^z = z^x proving it is transitive

But the test paper solution does it this way
from(1) y = x^(y/x) and from(2) y = z^(y/z)
Now x^(y/x) = z^(y/z) ... so its not transitive
Which is correct? Did i do anything wrong?
 
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jd12345 said:
But the test paper solution does it this way
from(1) y = x^(y/x) and from(2) y = z^(y/z)
Now x^(y/x) = z^(y/z) ... so its not transitive

How did it follow from x^(y/x) = z^(y/z) that x and z are not equivalent?
Raise both sides to the power of (xz/y) , we will get x and z as equivalent.
I think both methods prove transitivity. I can't see how the test paper solution is giving different answer after it has shown this :- x^(y/x) = z^(y/z) .

Note :- we don't have to worry about y being zero here. As 0 won't be equivalent to any other integer. As for any non-zero integer x ,
0^x(=0) won't be same as x^0(=1) .
 
So it is an equivalent relation right?
When the book gives the wrong solution i get real angry - more when it wastes so much time
 
Anyways can you find three numbers which are equivalent according to the above relation. I am unable to.
I could think of pairs of numbers which are equivalent. For ex:- 2^4 = 4^2 .
I am unable to find 3 such numbers which are equivalent.:cry:
 
glb_lub said:
Anyways can you find three numbers which are equivalent according to the above relation. I am unable to.
I could think of pairs of numbers which are equivalent. For ex:- 2^4 = 4^2 .
I am unable to find 3 such numbers which are equivalent.:cry:

Ah , as it happens other than the equivalence in the obvious case where an integer is equivalent to itself i.e x~x , there are only two pairs of integers which are equivalent , i.e (-2)~(-4) and (2)~(4) .

Thus there is no equivalence class containing 3 members or more for this equivalence relation. Either we have equivalence class of one member each i.e ...,{-3},{-1},{0},{1},{3}... or the two equivalence classes both of which contain two members i.e {2,4} and {-2,-4} .

This maybe a reason why your solution book gave the wrong answer for transitivity. Because there is no equivalence class of the form {x,y,z} where x,y,z are integers.

But there is another very common equivalence relation for which such a thing happens. I.e the equality relation.
I.e x~y if x=y. For this relation , all the equivalence classes contain one member each. :smile:
 

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