Is Your Propositional Logic Negation Correct?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around negating a propositional logic expression, specifically ## [\neg (p\wedge \neg q)]\wedge \neg r ##, and finding an equivalent formulation that does not use negation, conjunction, or disjunction. Participants are exploring the properties of logical expressions and the transformations involved in propositional logic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to negate the given expression and simplify it. There are discussions about the correctness of their transformations and the search for equivalent statements without using certain logical operators. Some participants express uncertainty about how to derive these equivalents and question the validity of their approaches.

Discussion Status

There is an active exchange of ideas, with some participants providing hints and guidance on how to proceed. Multiple interpretations of the transformations are being explored, and while there is no explicit consensus, the discussion is productive with suggestions for further exploration.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the use of truth tables and express concerns about the complexity of finding equivalent statements. There is a reference to De Morgan's laws and identities in propositional logic, indicating a focus on foundational concepts in logical reasoning.

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Negate ## [\neg (p\wedge \neg q)]\wedge \neg r ##

and relpace the resulting formula by an equivalent which does not involve ## \neg, \vee, \wedge ##

attempt:

## \neg ([\neg (p\wedge \neg q)]\wedge \neg r) = \neg \neg (p \wedge \neg q) \vee \neg \neg r ##

## = (p \wedge \neg q) \vee r ##
## = (p \vee r) \wedge (\neg q \vee r) = \neg ((p\vee r) \implies \neg (\neg q \vee r)) ##
## = \neg ((p \vee r) \implies \neg \neg q \wedge \neg r) = \neg ((p \vee r) \implies q \wedge \neg r) ##

## = \neg (\neg p \implies q \implies \neg (\neg q \implies r)) ##

not sure if this is correct so far, and if it is, where to go from here
 
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phospho said:
Negate ## [\neg (p\wedge \neg q)]\wedge \neg r ##

and relpace the resulting formula by an equivalent which does not involve ## \neg, \vee, \wedge ##

attempt:

## \neg ([\neg (p\wedge \neg q)]\wedge \neg r) = \neg \neg (p \wedge \neg q) \vee \neg \neg r ##

## = (p \wedge \neg q) \vee r ##

You are very close at this point; try replacing ##p \wedge \neg q## with an equivalent statement not involving ## \wedge ##.
 
FeDeX_LaTeX said:
You are very close at this point; try replacing ##p \wedge \neg q## with an equivalent statement not involving ## \wedge ##.

I'm sorry I can't find one :( I'm having a lot of troubles figuring out how to find equivalent statements. I have some written down from lectures, but none which I can think of help here.
 
all I have is ## p \wedge \neg q = \neg (\neg p \wedge q )## but I don't know if you can "factor out" ## \neg ##
 
phospho said:
I'm sorry I can't find one :( I'm having a lot of troubles figuring out how to find equivalent statements. I have some written down from lectures, but none which I can think of help here.

Hint:
##a \wedge b \equiv \neg(a \implies \neg b)##
 
FeDeX_LaTeX said:
Hint:
##a \wedge b \equiv \neg(a \implies \neg b)##

so ## (p \wedge \neg q ) \vee q = \neg (p \implies \neg \neg q) \vee r = \neg \neg (p \implies q) \implies r) = (p \implies q) \implies r ## ?

I am very curious on how you know all of these equivalent statements? Also, are you allowed to multiply out as in algebra? e.g. does ## \neg (a \vee \neg b ) = \neg a \vee \neg \neg b ## ?
 
phospho said:
so ## (p \wedge \neg q ) \vee q = \neg (p \implies \neg \neg q) \vee r = \neg \neg (p \implies q) \implies r) = (p \implies q) \implies r ## ?

I am very curious on how you know all of these equivalent statements? Also, are you allowed to multiply out as in algebra? e.g. does ## \neg (a \vee \neg b ) = \neg a \vee \neg \neg b ## ?

You could check your answer with a truth table and see if that matches up with what you'd expect.

In general, no, the distributive law does not necessarily work in the way that you are familiar with. For instance, ##\neg(p \vee q) \neq (\neg p) \vee (\neg q)##.
 
FeDeX_LaTeX said:
You could check your answer with a truth table and see if that matches up with what you'd expect.

In general, no, the distributive law does not necessarily work in the way that you are familiar with. For instance, ##\neg(p \vee q) \neq (\neg p) \vee (\neg q)##.

hm I see,

the thing is, I see online a lot of people just stating equivalent statements, but I'm not sure how they just "know" it. I do draw truth tables, but I don't want to be doing that all the time. Is there something I'm missing?

Thank you for your help btw, is my answer correct?
 
phospho said:
hm I see,

the thing is, I see online a lot of people just stating equivalent statements, but I'm not sure how they just "know" it. I do draw truth tables, but I don't want to be doing that all the time. Is there something I'm missing?

Thank you for your help btw, is my answer correct?

It helps to know the negation rules (De Morgan's laws) and some identities for replacing conjunctions, disjunctions, implications, and so forth. In calculus you are likely familiar with several identities or formulae which you have learned and have become second nature to you through practice; the same can be true for propositional and predicate logic.
 
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