I've reached a significant dilemma in my life

[Ameter]

and would like some input.

I've defined myself as an astrophysicist for several years now, and it's been my dream to study astrophysics from early childhood. I went to university shortly after high school, but dropped out halfway during my second semester, largely because of depression and work ethic issues. I didn't go back to university until I was 25. I worked trades for the entire time, where I learned a rather strong work ethic and overcame my depression. The entirety of my return to university has been geared towards preparing for doctoral study (and beyond).

A few weeks ago I received my rejection letter from Princeton. I've yet to hear back from any of my other schools (Harvard, Madison Wisconsin and University of British Columbia), but I've been someone depressed about my future in Astrophysics since. I had two publications, two conference presentations + papers in proceedings, with a few more papers pending submission (all in my undergrad). I had a 3.97 GPA in the honours program at the University of Calgary, with both research and teaching assistant experience. My program was a combined degree in Astrophysics and Computer Science. Because of all that, I figured that I should be able to get into nearly any school I chose.

All this aside, however, I have been starting to wonder whether or not I should continue to pursue Astrophysics, and here's why:

1) Doctoral study pays < 30K/year, and lasts 5-8 years. After that comes post-doctoral positions, which pay 40-60K/year typically, and usually you do 2-6 years of those. I'm 29 right now, which means that I can expect to be nearly 40 before I can reasonably project to be obtaining a faculty position.

2) Faculty jobs pay between 70 and 110K/year, with the latter being for very senior faculty. Furthermore, the number of faculty (and even post doc) positions compared to the number of doctoral candidates is dauntingly small

3) I have a wife and a child on the way (due in ~2 weeks). I want to have more children, and don't want them separated by 5+ years, meaning we'd have yet more children before I was even done my doctoral study.

4) I'll be graduating with a degree in Computer Science, meaning that I can likely start a position at > 60K/year.

5) I'm nearly 100K in debt from student loans (between both mine and my wifes) and other debt.

I look at my future, and I don't want to put my family through many years of living below the poverty line, with future expectations of pay on par with what I could reasonably expect to start at now. At the same time, my dream was astrophysics, and I want to contribute my ideas to science.

I've been toying with the idea of trying to maintain ties with my university colleagues and working with them on projects as more of a hobby than anything else, but I doubt they'd feel as keen on the idea as I would be.

Thoughts?

 

[twofish-quant]

I didn't go back to university until I was 25. I worked trades for the entire time, where I learned a rather strong work ethic and overcame my depression.

People with mood disorders don't "overcome" them, but rather manage them. Mood disorders are very common among academics, and one has to be really careful in dealing with them.

A few weeks ago I received my rejection letter from Princeton. I've yet to hear back from any of my other schools (Harvard, Madison Wisconsin and University of British Columbia), but I've been someone depressed about my future in Astrophysics since.

Take a long walk, and do whatever lifts your mood. Something that you will pretty soon realize is that this is merely the first rejection out of many, and whether or not you get something done will depend on whether you can keep moving forward even while you get rejected for things.

Because of all that, I figured that I should be able to get into nearly any school I chose.

Nope. It's extremely random, and you are competing against people that are as good or frankly just better than you. It could be that someone on the admissions committee just was in a bad mood when they saw your application. The good news is that you still have some other applications in play.

If you get in *anywhere* then that's enough to celebrate, because it means that you get to the next level, where it gets even tougher.

1) Doctoral study pays < 30K/year, and lasts 5-8 years. After that comes post-doctoral positions, which pay 40-60K/year typically, and usually you do 2-6 years of those. I'm 29 right now, which means that I can expect to be nearly 40 before I can reasonably project to be obtaining a faculty position.

Actually, you can't reasonably project to get a faculty position at all. Your chances of getting a research faculty position once you get out in roughly 1 in 10.

5) I'm nearly 100K in debt from student loans (between both mine and my wifes) and other debt.

One thing that you should realize that interest and payments for some student loans is deferred during graduate school.

I look at my future, and I don't want to put my family through many years of living below the poverty line, with future expectations of pay on par with what I could reasonably expect to start at now.

Well, that's a conversation that you need to have with your wife. In my case, we were both Ph.D. students, so graduate student life wasn't so bad. The income isn't great, but universities tend to be nice places to raise kids on a shoe string.

I've been toying with the idea of trying to maintain ties with my university colleagues and working with them on projects as more of a hobby than anything else, but I doubt they'd feel as keen on the idea as I would be.

The problem is that your day job will leave you with very little time to work on projects. If you skip your day job and just do odd jobs to support yourself so that you can spend most of your time researching... Well then you are just a graduate student in everything but name.

 

[Choppy]

You seem to have a pretty decent background, so you should be able to get into a good graduate program. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that you will be able to get into 'any' graduate program. As Two-Fish said, there is a random element to the application process.

Your dilemma is not uncommon. I think just about everyone looking at graduate school has to deal with these issues. Your case is componded by the fact that your decision will affect more than just yourself. It's one thing to spend late nights in the lab when you're single, but when you've got a child at home, you need to make sure you put in quality parent time.

The good thing as this point is that you seem to be going in with your eyes open and not under any illusions. You know what your financial situation will be like for the next few years if you get into graduate school and pursue academia. So this is the decision you will have to make with your wife. How willing is she to support you on this? The decision is a lot different if she's a professional who can more-or-less support the family while you go to grad school.

If I were you, I'd wait it out, see where you get in and with your wife have a realistic look at what the next few years will look like if you pursue a PhD. If things get too difficult financially you can always drop the program - the working world will always be there. You can always bring in addtional income with a part-time job (but this of course, cuts into time - both towards your research and more importantly with your family).

 

[Locrian]

3) I have a wife and a child on the way (due in ~2 weeks). I want to have more children, and don't want them separated by 5+ years, meaning we'd have yet more children before I was even done my doctoral study.

My opinion: you should end this nonsense about grad school in astro immediately. It's a significant investment with poor expected return. You have a child on the way; go get a real job and help support your family.

 

[Locrian]

Actually, you can't reasonably project to get a faculty position at all. Your chances of getting a research faculty position once you get out in roughly 1 in 10.

Really? That's the probability of someone with a PhD in astrophysics getting a faculty job?

Seriously?

 

[turbo]

My program was a combined degree in Astrophysics and Computer Science.

Have you considered the University of Arizona at Tucson? Very large program in astrophysics with multiple disciplines, plus they develop and build instrumentation for some of the largest telescopes in the world. Having skills in electronics and computer science might mesh very well with graduate work in astrophysics.

 

[GuitarStrings]

As a 17 year old, I feel unqualified to even begin giving you advice, so I will offer my opinion instead.

My dad has had to make some sacrifices in life which have affected him negatively. However, I also know that if he hadn't made those sacrifices, he wouldn't have felt as satisfied. At this point, all I can do is feel bad for the fact that he was in the position where he had to make the choice, because it probably wasn't an easy one.

Coming back to the point: I agree with Locrian. You can always pursue astrophysics as a hobby, you can't manage a family as a hobby.