News Juan Williams fired by NPR - was it fair?

[DR13]

I don't get why Juan Williams would cite his fear regarding people in Muslim garb boarding the plane. It's a safe bet that they got far more scrutiny at the security screening than he did. If he wants to be nervous about anybody, it should be a "sleeper"

It's just instinct. We have been told over and over that Muslim extremists killed us on 9/11 that now we have an innate fear of all Muslims. It is just the natural response.

But yeah. I agree with the sleeper thing. But you can't assume that people are rational... they're people.

 

[WhoWee]

Mr. Williams said "Look, Bill, I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

What I want to know is what would people dressed in "Christian garb" look like?

Personally, I always keep an eye on those Nuns - especially those older ones that tend to congrgate.LOL

 

[Gokul43201]

I am curious to know if Juan Williams was expressing his views as a representative of NPR, or merely as himself. The difference would certainly affect my opinion of NPR's policies.

I too think this is important. As it turns out, O'Reilly responds to Williams' opinion, stating that this is coming from someone who works at NPR (and Williams concurs). So Williams is being identified as an NPR employee. That's not exactly the same as saying that he was expressing his opinion as a representative of NPR, but it's close - his position as an NPR employee was being used to "sell" his argument.

And we know that other organizations have similar/harsher policies. Octavia Nasr was fired from CNN for opinions expressed in her personal tweets (don't recall anyone on the Right claiming her First Amendment rights were being eviscerated).

 

[arildno]

To express adoration for an evil religious fascist, as Nasr did, Gokul, is in quite a different league than first acknowledging, as Williams did, a gut reaction of nervousness, and then following up with a comment that such gut reactions cannot be the basis for our actual political decisions.

Equally vile, as nasr's comment, was Helen Thomas' insinuation that the Jews should be sent back to Poland&Germany, conveniently forgetting their history there, or for that matter that 50% of the Jews in Israel have Middle Eastern roots (sephardim).

So, no moral equivalence here.

 

[WhoWee]

This may be more on point.
http://www.youtube.com/das_captcha?next=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7msrF1V4NeY
Totenberg seems to have gotten a pass?

 

[Gokul43201]

To express adoration for an evil religious fascist, as Nasr did, Gokul, is in quite a different league than first acknowledging, as Williams did, a gut reaction of nervousness, and then following up with a comment that such gut reactions cannot be the basis for our actual political decisions.

Equally vile, as nasr's comment, was Helen Thomas' insinuation that the Jews should be sent back to Poland&Germany, conveniently forgetting their history there, or for that matter that 50% of the Jews in Israel have Middle Eastern roots (sephardim).

So, no moral equivalence here.

Even stipulating that your characterization is accurate, who said anything about moral equivalence? If firing Williams is denying him his first amendment rights, then so would be firing Nasr. More pertinent, Williams was specifically identified as an NPR representative when he made those statements in a TV program aimed at a nationwide audience, whereas Nasr was expressing personal opinions to her friends, as a private person.

 

[CAC1001]

IMO, Williams got taken out of context and should not have been fired. I also think it was very snide of the woman who fired him in her speech later to say he can take it up with his psychiatrist or whoever, as if the man has mental issues.

 

[CAC1001]

Jeez, don't you ever watch the actual news?

Actually, this was reported on Fox News as well. I guess some just didn't catch it.

 

[Galteeth]

Muslims are not an ethnic group, they are a group that has a certain set of beliefs and an ideology. I will admit that I personally feel uncomfortable around any set of people who believe in a god that sets a dogma whose adherence determines entrance to heaven or hell. If one truly believes in such, their moral basis and understanding of the world around them is threatening to me, as it implies that my belief system is a corrupting influence instilled in me by their god's enemy.

 

[mheslep]

NPR's charge that Williams violated the no commentary rule, i.e. journalists "should not express views" in other outlets, like TV shows, that "they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist" is bogus, as they have several people doing exactly that, including NPR's Nina Totenburg on Inside Washington for years, and NPR's Mara Liasson on Fox commentary segments.

 

[Hurkyl]

Muslims are not an ethnic group, they are a group that has a certain set of beliefs and an ideology. I will admit that I personally feel uncomfortable around any set of people who believe in a god that sets a dogma whose adherence determines entrance to heaven or hell. If one truly believes in such, their moral basis and understanding of the world around them is threatening to me, as it implies that my belief system is a corrupting influence instilled in me by their god's enemy.

You're uncomfortable with being a heathen? Or is there something you haven't said?

 

[OmCheeto]

Nor do I find his uneasiness to be irrational

I agree. un-easiness is not irrational.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPEmfh3hOXc

We went through the "Oh my god, he looks like them"/"Oh my god, I look like them" phenomena at work after 9/11.

Irrational, is when we don't get over it.

 

[CAC1001]

It is normal to feel uncomfortable over certain ethnic groups by instinct, what is bad is to judge said entire ethnic group that way. I am a white guy. If I am walking down a street and I see a group of black guys dressed in black t-shirts and due rags approaching me, I would be lying if I said I didn't get a bit uneasy. That doesn't mean I judge blacks as all potential thugs.

 

[lisab]

It is normal to feel uncomfortable over certain ethnic groups by instinct, what is bad is to judge said entire ethnic group that way. I am a white guy. If I am walking down a street and I see a group of black guys dressed in black t-shirts and due rags approaching me, I would be lying if I said I didn't get a bit uneasy. That doesn't mean I judge blacks as all potential thugs.

Right. We can't control our thoughts, really; it's when we act on our thoughts that racism becomes a problem. We can be aware of our biases and ensure they don't affect our decisions.

Besides, like someone else brought up earlier, it's the sleepers who are the real threat. The way terrorists usually work is to blend in, not to be obviously 'different' from the crowd.

 

[mugaliens]

The nervousness is irrational -- assuming the speaker knows better -- because the danger has been ridiculously blown out of proportion.

Proportion, numbers-wise, does not have anything to do with nervousness, or even whether it's rational or irrational. I grew up in the woods of Florida, with rattlers all around, but we simply kept an eye and ear out of them. Their presence didn't make us nervous. On the other hand, we were nervous (and careful) every time we lifted a rotten piece of wood off the ground because coral snakes loved to camp out beaneath the warm, moist rotting wood.

Since I only saw three during the 11 years I lived there, would you call my nervousness while picking up rotting wood and boards rational, or irrational?

And don't get me wrong, people. My beef isn't for or against Williams. It's against the irrational knee-jerk reaction of the NPR media elites. It's also why I'm in favor of yanking the plug on their funding.

 

[OmCheeto]

And don't get me wrong, people. My beef isn't for or against Williams. It's against the irrational knee-jerk reaction of the NPR media elites. It's also why I'm in favor of yanking the plug on their funding.

That's funny. I tuned into NPR yesterday for the first time in a year. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed it. I think I may start contributing.

hmmm...http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/statements/fy2008/fy08_NPR_Inc_990.pdf" = $10/yr.

I can afford that.

I wonder if this was all a plot to bolster revenue. And I wonder if Williams was in on the scam.



NPR
http://philanthropy.com/premium/stats/philanthropy400/index.php?orgid=321067"
Sep 30, 2009...$64,772,218
Sep 30, 2008...$71,321,022
Sep 30, 2007...$77,626,656
Sep 30, 2006...$59,235,163
Sep 30, 2005...$71,225,620
Sep 30, 2004...$286,821,064
(11.06.2003: http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=propoganda/corporatemedia/npr-gets-big-money-from-mcdonalds.txt" will announce today the largest donation in its history, a cash bequest from the will of the late philanthropist Joan Kroc of about $200 million.)
Sep 30, 2003...$59,555,176
Sep 30, 2002...$42,171,369

 

[CAC1001]

One wonders why they haven't fired Nina Totenberg for some of the things she has said.

 

[mheslep]

That's funny. I tuned into NPR yesterday for the first time in a year. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed it. I think I may start contributing.

hmmm...http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/statements/fy2008/fy08_NPR_Inc_990.pdf" = $10/yr.

I can afford that.

Or they can just run a few more of those endless 'supported by' ads on so called listener supported radio.

 

[WhoWee]

Ellen Weiss, the person that told Juan on the telephone that he was fired, has left NPR.
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/06/132713966/NPR-News-VP-Ellen-Weiss-Resigns