News Keep fear alive - Rally to Restore Sanity

[mheslep]

I've said many a foolish thing in my lifetime in jest, that were misinterpreted.

So have I, but I don't buy that Yusuf's (repeated) statements were in jest.

 

[nismaratwork]

So have I, but I don't buy that Yusuf's (repeated) statements were in jest.

Seriously, they're not exactly "off the cuff"... "he must die" us pretty unambiguous and clear.

 

[lisab]

So have I, but I don't buy that Yusuf's (repeated) statements were in jest.

You're perfectly within your rights to feel that way, but surely you recognize how personal bias plays into your decision to dismiss Yusuf's statements. You - none of us, actually - have any idea of the context in which those statements were made.

I know firsthand how sarcasm simply doesn't translate well from real life into pixels. Perhaps he has a sardonic sense of humor; who knows?

I think it's quite telling that he was allowed into the United States. I trust those who were responsible for that decision know far more about him than we can gleen from a Wiki page, and found him to be benign.

 

[Gokul43201]

Still, it's asking a lot of us to believe him that EVERYTHING he said was in jest, EXCEPT the part about accepting the judgment of the courts. I'm more likely to believe that he's a different person now (over 20 years later) than that his statements then were grossly misinterpreted.

That he is allowed into the US is not a big deal - it probably only means that the US does not perceive him as a terrorist threat. I imagine there are thousands of Muslims living in the US who believe that Rushdie should be killed for his blasphemy. There were probably thousands of anti-abortion activists who believed that George Tiller deserved to be killed for his sins.

Edit: Found some video: http://www.archive.org/details/Hypotheticals-a-Satanic-Scenario (I don't detect any trace of jest)

 

[mheslep]

You're perfectly within your rights to feel that way, but surely you recognize how personal bias plays into your decision to dismiss Yusuf's statements. You - none of us, actually - have any idea of the context in which those statements were made.

Yes clearly we do have some substantial, if not complete context.

• Yusuf made the first 1989 "must die" statement I quoted while addressing students at Kingston college.
  
• Two months later he went on a panel TV show and again said, in an interview:

  Robertson: You don't think that this man deserves to die?
  Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
  Robertson: Yes.
  Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
  Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
  Y. Islam: Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act - perhaps, yes.

  http://www.archive.org/details/Hypotheticals-a-Satanic-Scenario
  For more context of what was being said in the above TV panel we have the interpretation by those that were http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/23/books/cat-stevens-gives-support-to-call-for-death-of-rushdie.html" :

  Several of the participants defended Mr. Rushdie. The writer Fay Weldon, for example, said, ''Burn the book today, kill the writer tomorrow.'' She said she was offended by Mr. Islam's remarks, which she said incited people to violence.
  
  Also on the show was Dr. Kalim Siddiqui, director of the Muslim Institute in London and one of the organizers of a nationwide demonstration against ''Satanic Verses'' that is scheduled for Hyde Park on Saturday. He said: ''I wouldn't kill him, but I'm sure that there are very many people in this country prepared at the moment. If they could lay their hands on Rushdie, he would be dead.

• Before the airing of the above program, the http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/23/books/cat-stevens-gives-support-to-call-for-death-of-rushdie.html" interviewed him:

  LONDON, May 22 — The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''
  
  The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''
  
  ''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.

• Finally, I defer to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/3639714/Letters-to-The-Sunday-Telegraph.html" for a final opinion on the matter:

  However much Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam may wish to rewrite his past, he was neither misunderstood nor misquoted over his views on the Khomeini fatwa against The Satanic Verses (Seven, April 29). In an article in The New York Times on May 22, 1989, Craig R Whitney reported Stevens/Islam saying on a British television programme "that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, 'I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing'.''
  He added that "if Mr Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, 'I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is'.''
  In a subsequent interview with The New York Times, Mr Whitney added, Stevens/Islam, who had seen a preview of the programme, said that he "stood by his comments".
  Let's have no more rubbish about how "green" and innocent this man was.

 

[mheslep]

I think it's quite telling that he was allowed into the United States. I trust those who were responsible for that decision know far more about him than we can gleen from a Wiki page, and found him to be benign.

Oh I don't doubt that Stevens/Islam is benign in the sense of participating in violence himself, he said that more or less 20 years ago. In the sense of contributing to and and apologizing for those who do take Islamic belief as a sanction to kill, I believe Stevens/Islam was indeed malignant at the time he made the comments; he remains so absent an apology (not a denial) and thus it is at least myopic and at worst a hypocrisy to have the guy appear at a "Restore Sanity" rally.

 

[OmCheeto]

Oh I don't doubt that Stevens/Islam is benign in the sense of participating in violence himself, he said that more or less 20 years ago. In the sense of contributing to and and apologizing for those who do take Islamic belief as a sanction to kill, I believe Stevens/Islam was indeed malignant at the time he made the comments; he remains so absent an apology (not a denial) and thus it is at least myopic and at worst a hypocrisy to have the guy appear at a "Restore Sanity" rally.

What is myopic is judging a man's character based on a 10 second sound bite. Which after listening to it, sounds to me like Stevens was just giving his interpretation of Islamic law.

What is also interesting is that it appears it was Rushdie himself who started the controversy about Stevens being on the show. Have book sales been sluggish? Perhaps he was jealous that he wasn't invited? Would Kareem have been obliged to pinch his little head off if he had shown up? I guess we'll have to wait for the next show to find out.

 

[Al68]

...Though reading the lyrics to Mr. Ozbourne's incomprehensible singing...

Huh? I can understand his singing just fine. It's when he's not singing that I can't understand anything he says.

 

[mheslep]

What is myopic is judging a man's character based on a 10 second sound bite. Which after listening to it, sounds to me like Stevens was just giving his interpretation of Islamic law.

What is also interesting is that it appears it was Rushdie himself who started the controversy about Stevens being on the show. Have book sales been sluggish? Perhaps he was jealous that he wasn't invited? Would Kareem have been obliged to pinch his little head off if he had shown up? I guess we'll have to wait for the next show to find out.

OmCheeto, would you care to reconsider this post?

 

[OmCheeto]

OmCheeto, would you care to reconsider this post?

no

for an explanation, google: rushdie stevens

just read the first 20 headlines

some are more entertaining than others

I consider Stevens to be a good man
I consider Rushdie to be a sleaze ball

unsubscribe

 

[Gokul43201]

no

for an explanation, google: rushdie stevens

just read the first 20 headlines

Tried it. Didn't find an explanation.

 

[Perspicacity]

Tried it. Didn't find an explanation.

There isn't one. I think OmCheeto just really, really likes Peace Train.

I like how he basically walked off the thread—it's like someone insulted jesus in front of a nun or something.

 

[OmCheeto]

There isn't one. I think OmCheeto just really, really likes Peace Train.

I like how he basically walked off the thread—it's like someone insulted jesus in front of a nun or something.

Something like that.

Don't **** with my deities. I still am waiting for the spaghetti monster to come back and save us all.

resubscribe.



But going to where I think the thread was going would in my mind send the thread into the mindless tailspin of religionosity. A place much frowned upon here.

The Rally to Restore Sanity was not about Rushdie, or Stevens, or religion, or politics.

It was about media madness.

The top 20 internet posts for: Rushdie Stevens (it may have changed since yesterday, and I was only interested in links since the rally)

Take the first two for example:

Nov 2, 2010
Rushdie: Stewart's Cat Stevens stance 'depressing' - Ben Smith ...
... The presence of the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens' was a dissonant note for some, who find it hard to forgive Yusuf Islam's backing ...

Nov 1, 2010
Big Hollywood » Blog Archive » Salman Rushdie on Cat Stevens ...
... According to Nick Cohen at Standpoint, Salman Rushdie, the author forced into hiding for years because of the Cat Stevens (Yusaf Islam)

Forced him into hiding?

Cat did that?

It was the Ayatollah that issued the Fatwah.

Ask any Muslim today what the rules are regarding a Fatwah.

And who wrote the book? Knowing full well what the consequences would be, shrouded behind a western wall of free speech.

Rushdie is a slimeball, or whatever it was that I called him yesterday.

...

On the other hand.

...





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awaiting the obligatory ban...

dear god, whatever flavor of pasta you may be, please have mercy on my soul.