News Keep fear alive - Rally to Restore Sanity

[G037H3]

Movie Idiocracy comes to mind. The US is going down that route right now, with likes of Christine O'Donnel and Sarah Palin.

And Obama, Biden, Maxine Waters, etc.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Some things can be made into satire, but some things should be taken seriously, or at least relatively seriously. Those of you who consider yourselves Americans should be very concerned with the very real decline of the nation you support.

The thing about Stewart and Colbert is that they come as a two-edge sword. It is comedy heavily laced with hard commentary. This is why, imo, they are now emerging as a political force. I don't know how far they can take this, but with Huffington and Oprah involved, I tend to think this is intended as something more than comedy.

 

[G037H3]

The thing about Stewart and Colbert is that they come as a two-edge sword. It is comedy heavily laced with hard commentary. This is why, imo, they are now emerging as a political force. I don't know how far they can take this, but with Huffington and Oprah involved, I tend to think this is intended as something more than comedy.

Viewers of their programs aren't exactly cultured, so any political momentum they garner can be accurately labeled as untermenschen politics, which is the majority of politics, but is certainly not something to celebrate or support.

 

[Evo]

Viewers of their programs aren't exactly cultured, so any political momentum they garner can be accurately labeled as untermenschen politics, which is the majority of politics, but is certainly not something to celebrate or support.

It's meant to counter the comedic rallies of the Tea Party

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Consider, for example the Colbert Roast of Bush. I don't think the Bush admin knew what hit them! They didn't understand Colbert. They thought he was on their side. They invited a heavily-armed enemy to join them for dinner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-4E8ZDj9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y97-37xfMo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAvFM4TYQKU

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Viewers of their programs aren't exactly cultured,

Wild speculation on your part?

so any political momentum they garner can be accurately labeled as untermenschen politics, which is the majority of politics, but is certainly not something to celebrate or support.

How do you know? There is a difference between so-called untermenschen politics, and the witty observation of glaring but avoided facts. Beyond that, if you actually listen to what Stewart is saying, he is pleading for unity. He is actually reaching out to the tea partiers. So it sounds to me like you are simply tossing around assumptions.

 

[turbo]

Viewers of their programs aren't exactly cultured, so any political momentum they garner can be accurately labeled as untermenschen politics, which is the majority of politics, but is certainly not something to celebrate or support.

You can't find either show funny unless you have enough appreciation for the political landscape to understand the satire being presented. If you accept the content of either show absent such background, you miss the point entirely. To call people who appreciate their shows "uncultured" is way off the mark. Their fans are probably the most well-informed and thoughtful TV viewers out there. It ain't Days of Our Lives.

 

[G037H3]

Wild speculation on your part?

TV is not for the intelligent.

How do you know? There is a difference between so-called untermenschen politics, and the witty observation of glaring but avoided facts. Beyond that, if you actually listen to what Stewart is saying, he is pleading for unity. He is actually reaching out to the tea partiers. So it sounds to me like you are simply tossing around assumptions.

Satire is for those on the same level as their object of derision, if better ideas cannot be expressed it shows that the one performing satire does not understand the entirety of the situation.

Unity is impossible in the US at this point in time. The last time it was really possible was probably around the time of Eisenhower. By unity, I mean, a strong cultural assertion made by the majority, meaning European-Americans. Due to demographic changes, unity and a strong sense of lasting national identity are impossible now.

You can't find either show funny unless you have enough appreciation for the political landscape to understand the satire being presented. If you accept the content of either show absent such background, you miss the point entirely. To call people who appreciate their shows "uncultured" is way off the mark. Their fans are probably the most well-informed and thoughtful TV viewers out there. It ain't Days of Our Lives.

I appreciate the political history of the US, but I don't find it at all humorous. Sad, really, but the current and future events are an inescapable result of an egalitarian/democratic system of government that has changing demographics and dysgenic policies.

"Well-informed and thoughtful", in my definition, extends far beyond the present that you live in. Real wisdom and intelligence is timeless. The supporters of such ideas that are espoused by said programs have no sense of the history of their own nation, their own cultural and historic identity, or any real understanding of how things work.

Which is how democracy works. It doesn't.

 

[turbo]

"Well-informed and thoughtful", in my definition, extends far beyond the present that you live in. Real wisdom and intelligence is timeless. The supporters of such ideas that are espoused by said programs have no sense of the history of their own nation, their own cultural and historic identity, or any real understanding of how things work.

Which is how democracy works. It doesn't.

Nihilism is not a viable option. Rejecting the flawed in the pursuit of the ideal is a sure path to self-destruction, personally or collectively.

 

[G037H3]

Nihilism is not a viable option. Rejecting the flawed in the pursuit of the ideal is a sure path to self-destruction, personally or collectively.

I'm not a nihilist. I'm simply not very optimistic about the future of the US.

Pursuit of the ideal is how greater things must be accomplished. Worship of money and weakness is a sure path to failure.

 

[nismaratwork]

Some things can be made into satire, but some things should be taken seriously, or at least relatively seriously. Those of you who consider yourselves Americans should be very concerned with the very real decline of the nation you support.

You speak as though satire can't be an effective political tool... history disagrees with you. Beyond that, it's clear that you're a serious ideologue of some kind, "worship money and weakness..." and more... so I'm not sure what the point of your posts are.

In short, just because you can't appreciate how satire uses humor to reach people in the same way you're reached by fear of American decline, doesn't mean it's ineffective. Much as you have no interest in reading about laws, it doesn't mean they don't apply to you, so to with satire.

 

[G037H3]

You speak as though satire can't be an effective political tool... history disagrees with you. Beyond that, it's clear that you're a serious ideologue of some kind, "worship money and weakness..." and more... so I'm not sure what the point of your posts are.

In short, just because you can't appreciate how satire uses humor to reach people in the same way you're reached by fear of American decline, doesn't mean it's ineffective. Much as you have no interest in reading about laws, it doesn't mean they don't apply to you, so to with satire.

Viewing actions as political tools is the problem to begin with, it's slave-morality behavour. I cannot refute you, so I shall mock you, ad nausem.

My ideology is history, which can tell you so much more than any living man.

Also, restate your second to last sentence please, it is unclear to me.

 

[OmCheeto]

TV is not for the intelligent.

Wow. That's the best compliment I've had in ages.

I canceled my cable this last January.

But I can still watch Stewart and Colbert online.

And I'm not sure what you mean by uncultured. Are you implying I was not born of a petri dish? I suppose that's a good thing. But I'm sure you meant http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cultured"
I would hope that people learn things their entire lives, and would therefore become more enlightened and refined as a result. So I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, as the demographics of the viewers of both programs indicates a more mature crowd.

[T]he number of people older than 55 watching 'The Daily Show' rose by 25% [in May 2009, compared with May 2008], 22% for 'The Colbert Report.'" More ominously, "the number of people between the ages of 18 and 34 (the most coveted demographic) watching 'The Daily Show' fell 14%, 15% for 'The Colbert Report.'

The median age of "Daily Show" viewers in May 2009 was 41.4, and the median age of "Colbert Report" viewers was 38.3.

http://talkshownews.interbridge.com/2009/06/late-night-demographics-average-age-of.html"

I'm not a nihilist. I'm simply not very optimistic about the future of the US.

So I should sell all my stocks, quit my job, sell my house, and move. hmm...
Where do you suggest I move?

Pursuit of the ideal is how greater things must be accomplished. Worship of money and weakness is a sure path to failure.

I think I missed something somewhere. Did someone start of Church of Peewee Herman or something?

...

Anyways, I wish I could go to the rallies. I'm sure it will be great fun.

 

[Gokul43201]

Viewers of their programs aren't exactly cultured...

And in related news...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/28/comedy.politics/index.html

http://people-press.org/report/319/...e-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions

[PLAIN]http://people-press.org/reports/images/319-2.gif

 

[G037H3]

• If you only know one language (or haven't reached a high level of mastery in your native language) and are not at least studying another, you are uncultured.
• If you have never studied any great literature on your own, you are uncultured.
• If you don't know about the history of your people, you are uncultured.
• If you can't distinguish great art from recent art, you are uncultured.
• If you are a post-modernist or moral relativist, you are uncultured.

Age has little to do with what I am discussing.

That is entirely your decision whether to stay or not, or whether to support policies that contribute to the decline of the US.

It is by no means a falsity or mischaracterization to state that money is the object that Americans (and many others at this point) worship.

@goku

That chart says rather little...and statistics is not a good way to impress upon me your knowledge or positions. Knowledge of politics has very little to do with being cultured. Politics is not culture, it is the dirty manipulations that go on mostly behind the scenes, or right in plain sight for all to witness, wordlessly.

 

[nismaratwork]

Viewing actions as political tools is the problem to begin with, it's slave-morality behavour. I cannot refute you, so I shall mock you, ad nausem.

My ideology is history, which can tell you so much more than any living man.

Also, restate your second to last sentence please, it is unclear to me.

I'm not wasting any more time with your personal warped view of the world, and profound ignorance of the history you claim is your ideology. I suggest, as a parting comment, that you research just how powerful mockery, and satire have been in the history you claim is your ideology.

I will ask for this however:

Here are statements you've made without a shred of evidence:

Viewers of x, y, and z programs aren't "cultured". I don't suppose you have anything beyond your own opinion to support that?

"TV is not for the intelligent"... wow, I'm sure that virtually everyone here, including some extremely bright staff members will be shocked to learn that their intellect can be judged solely by a single activity. Hey Evo, MiH, sorry to say it but apparently watching Ramsey means you must not be bright... I know, I thought you were smart, but you've heard the man. (see... mockery... useful)

"Pursuit of the ideal is how greater things must be accomplished. Worship of money and weakness is a sure path to failure."

Really... well, I didn't realize that we worshiped weakness, whatever that means. I also would love to know which ideal you believe should be pursued, and since "greater" implies lesser accomplishments... wait... are you actually doing anything other than trying to sound like Charlton Heston in a less than lucid moment?

You have an incredible ability to mix sweeping and meaningless statements with a lack of any apparent ability to support them. I don't supposed you care to elaborate in detail as to what you believe is wrong with this country, and how you think it should be improved? I assume there is an ideology behind this, but you're not sharing... how rude *pout*.

 

[Gokul43201]

@goku

That chart says rather little...

It says exactly what the pollsters measured in that part of their study. What's little for you, is presumably a lot for others.

and statistics is not a good way to impress upon me your knowledge or positions.

I can't understand what you mean by this (since my post has nothing to do with my own knowledge or positions), so I'm skipping it.

Knowledge of politics has very little to do with being cultured.

There's more in those links than just a study of the viewers' knowledge of politics. Perhaps you should read them first.

Politics is not culture, it is the dirty manipulations that go on mostly behind the scenes, or right in plain sight for all to witness, wordlessly.

I didn't imply that politics was culture. There is also mention of the education levels of different audiences. I suspect education may correlate more strongly with what you call 'culture'. And if you go back and read real carefully, you'll notice that I described my post as "related news", which should indicate that these are related observations rather than a direct response to the quoted point.

 

[nismaratwork]

• If you only know one language (or haven't reached a high level of mastery in your native language) and are not at least studying another, you are uncultured.
• If you have never studied any great literature on your own, you are uncultured.
• If you don't know about the history of your people, you are uncultured.
• If you can't distinguish great art from recent art, you are uncultured.
• If you are a post-modernist or moral relativist, you are uncultured.

If you don't agree with G037H3's remarkably narrow views... you're uncultured. I'm serious... are you actually an incredibly sophisticated fancier of satire, and this is all part of your method, or are you really thinking that anyone buys this line of... reasoning?

 

[OmCheeto]

• If you only know one language (or haven't reached a high level of mastery in your native language) and are not at least studying another, you are uncultured.

• 
  
  Yay! Another compliment.
  
  I've lost count of the languages I speak. Let me try and remember them all:
  English, German, Russian, Serbian, Armenian, French, Spanish, Dutch, Hindi, Telugu, Geordie, Farsi, Arabic, Finnish, Romanian, Hungarian, Greek, Hebrew, Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Ibo(but not very well), and Polish.
  
  Ya znaio schto, you nyiechevo nie znaio.
  
  My Armenian friend says that the fact that I can quote So-Crates* in Russian, is a very good thing.
  
  I'm feeling so cultured today.
  -------------------------
  *Thank you Bill & Ted. If it weren't for you, I'd never have known what Napoleon looked like.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yay! Another compliment.

I've lost count of the languages I speak. Let me try and remember them all:
English, German, Russian, Serbian, Armenian, French, Spanish, Dutch, Hindi, Telugu, Geordie, Farsi, Arabic, Finnish, Romanian, Hungarian, Greek, Hebrew, Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Ibo(but not very well), and Polish.

Ya znaio schto, you nyiechevo nie znaio.

My Armenian friend says that the fact that I can quote So-Crates* in Russian, is a very good thing.

I'm feeling so cultured today.
-------------------------
*Thank you Bill & Ted. If it weren't for you, I'd never have known what Napoleon looked like.

A magyar egyedülálló nyelv, egy egyedi kultúra. E barbár (G037H3) nem értette kultúra ha külső ő fartő... Nerozumí smyslu kultury... Dydy 'n anhyblyg a blentyn.



G037H3: I know plenty of people who are multilingual, but would be generally considered uncultured. Megérteni? Shvatiti? Verstehen Sie? Zrozumieć? Lattom gőgös ember...

edit/P.S. OmCheeto: Do you ever run into the problem where you start to blend languages? For the longest time I kept using the Latin word for "cook/chef" whenever I spoke Spanish, or I'll slip into Japanese when I'm trying to speak anything... especially the word, "but". I have no idea why!

 

[cronxeh]

• If you only know one language (or haven't reached a high level of mastery in your native language) and are not at least studying another, you are uncultured.
• If you have never studied any great literature on your own, you are uncultured.
• If you don't know about the history of your people, you are uncultured.
• If you can't distinguish great art from recent art, you are uncultured.
• If you are a post-modernist or moral relativist, you are uncultured.

Ohh I have a few of my own:

• If you don't eat cheese, you are uncultured.
• If you don't eat yogurt, you are uncultured.
• If you don't eat sour cream, you are uncultured.
• If you don't drink kefir, you are uncultured.
• If you don't drink kumis, you are uncultured.
• If you don't believe in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-second_rule" , you are uncultured.
• If you've never drank water in Mexico, you are uncultured.

 

[nismaratwork]

Just a note... Starting a "what does it mean to be cultured" thread in Philosophy. I'm interested in the various perspectives that may emerge, and this thread is getting far off topic. https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2912064#post2912064

cronxeh: You've forced to come face to face (szemtol szembe lattom!) with just how much fermented dairy I eat. Oh, and for Mexico... I thought I was soooo clever... I didn't even brush my teeth with tap-water. THEN, I drank some watermelon juice in a restaurant... which had been made with tap-water in addition to watermelon. I prayed for death.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

and this thread is getting far off topic.

Yes, far enough. Please direct all discussion of culture to nismar's thread.

 

[OmCheeto]

A magyar egyedülálló nyelv, egy egyedi kultúra. E barbár (G037H3) nem értette kultúra ha külső ő fartő... Nerozumí smyslu kultury... Dydy 'n anhyblyg a blentyn.



G037H3: I know plenty of people who are multilingual, but would be generally considered uncultured. Megérteni? Shvatiti? Verstehen Sie? Zrozumieć? Lattom gőgös ember...

edit/P.S. OmCheeto: Do you ever run into the problem where you start to blend languages? For the longest time I kept using the Latin word for "cook/chef" whenever I spoke Spanish, or I'll slip into Japanese when I'm trying to speak anything... especially the word, "but". I have no idea why!

Why of course. I remember the first few weeks of Russian class at university, half of the class was already fluent in German, so we were always mixing up our "da's" with our "ya's". It was much fun. And for the life of me, I can no longer keep Serbian words out of my Russian conversations, and vice versa.

But I agree with you that multilingualism has little to do with being cultured. Most of the time it is a result of necessity or environment. I mean really, of what use is learning a foreign language if you don't need to? It's like learning COBOL and never writing a program.

Kapeesh?

 

[nismaratwork]

Why of course. I remember the first few weeks of Russian class at university, half of the class was already fluent in German, so we were always mixing up our "da's" with our "ya's". It was much fun. And for the life of me, I can no longer keep Serbian words out of my Russian conversations, and vice versa.

But I agree with you that multilingualism has little to do with being cultured. Most of the time it is a result of necessity or environment. I mean really, of what use is learning a foreign language if you don't need to? It's like learning COBOL and never writing a program.

Kapeesh?

Értem! I'm glad it's not just a defect in my noodle.

Ivan: Thanks Ivan.

So, the rally... if anyone from PF ends up there, maybe a thread with pics, or even live updates wouldn't be bad? I can't make it, but politics aside it sounds like it's going to be an absolute blast!

 

[G037H3]

If you don't agree with G037H3's remarkably narrow views... you're uncultured. I'm serious... are you actually an incredibly sophisticated fancier of satire, and this is all part of your method, or are you really thinking that anyone buys this line of... reasoning?

You may be egalitarian if you really insist upon it. I, myself, am an aristocrat.

 

[Astronuc]

Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly bond over campaign corruption
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electi...d-Bill-O-Reilly-bond-over-campaign-corruption

I would like to see more (or any) rational discussion as opposed to a bunch of beligerent or obnoxious blather.

I'm not sure what one-sided rallies achieve.

More town hall meetings with substantive discussions would be preferable.

 

[Tsu]

You may be egalitarian if you really insist upon it. I, myself, am an aristocrat.

 

[nismaratwork]

You may be egalitarian if you really insist upon it. I, myself, am an aristocrat.

An aristocrat without a people or a palace... how very... post-modern of you.

 

[G037H3]

You know not what you laugh at, so how can you derive pleasure out of my post? You must be laughing at what you *think* I must be like, which is far from the truth.