Kretschmann Scalar: Flat Spacetime & Singularities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Kretschmann scalar and its implications for identifying singularities in spacetime, particularly in the context of Schwarzschild black holes and flat spacetime. Participants explore the relationship between the value of the Kretschmann scalar and the presence of singularities, as well as references to relevant literature.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Kretschmann scalar is used to identify singularities, citing its behavior for Schwarzschild black holes where K \propto 1/r^6 indicates a singularity at r=0.
  • One participant questions whether K=0 is a definitive measure of flat spacetime, seeking references to support this claim.
  • Another participant mentions that previous contributions suggest K=0 does not necessarily indicate flat spacetime, referencing pp-waves that exhibit curvature singularities while having K=0.
  • A participant cites Hawking and Ellis, indicating that curvature can be non-zero even when the Kretschmann scalar is zero, referencing Penrose's work.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Kretschmann scalar being zero, with some suggesting it indicates flat spacetime while others argue against this interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitive relationship between K and singularities.

Contextual Notes

There are references to specific literature that may provide further insights, but the discussion does not resolve the conditions under which K=0 can be interpreted in relation to singularities or flat spacetime.

Cusp
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The Kretschmann scalar (the full contraction of the Reimann tensor K = R_abcd R^abcd) is often used to identify singularities - i.e. for a Schwarzschild black hole, K \propto 1/r^6, so we have a singularity at r=0, but not at the Schwarzschild horizon).

Clearly, as r->\infinity, K->0. Is K=0 a measure of flat spacetime in general? Is there a reference that shows this?

Cheers
 
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Cusp said:
The Kretschmann scalar (the full contraction of the Reimann tensor K = R_abcd R^abcd) is often used to identify singularities - i.e. for a Schwarzschild black hole, K \propto 1/r^6, so we have a singularity at r=0, but not at the Schwarzschild horizon).

Clearly, as r->\infinity, K->0. Is K=0 a measure of flat spacetime in general? Is there a reference that shows this?

Cheers

The person best able to answer this has stopped posting, but, from previous posts of his, the answer is "No." There are pp-waves that have curvature singularities, and that have K = 0. I suspect that this somewhere in Exact Solutions of Einstein's Field Equations by Hans Stephani, Dietrich Kramer, Malcolm MacCallum, and Cornelius Hoenselaers.

See 4. in
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1351759#post1351759

1. in
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1124707#post1124707

and the last paragraph of (the first post)
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1176876#post1176876
 
Last edited by a moderator:
According to Hawking and Ellis, page 260, it was pointed out by Penrose that curvature can be non-zero even when stuff like K is zero.
 
Thanks George - will check it out.
 

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