Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the derivation of the Lagrangian when time is treated as a dependent coordinate, specifically in the context of the parameter θ. The equation presented is L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\theta) = t'L(q,q'/t',t), where t' = dt/dθ and q' = dq/dθ. The participant attempts to manipulate the Lagrangian L = (m/2)q'^2 - V(q) but encounters discrepancies in the expected results. The resolution involves applying the chain rule to compute the necessary partial derivatives, leading to a clearer understanding of the relationship between the variables.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrangian mechanics
  • Familiarity with partial derivatives and the chain rule
  • Knowledge of dependent and independent coordinates
  • Basic concepts of classical mechanics, including kinetic and potential energy
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  • Study the application of the chain rule in Lagrangian mechanics
  • Explore the implications of treating time as a dependent variable in physics
  • Learn about the Euler-Lagrange equation and its derivation
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This discussion is beneficial for physics students, particularly those studying classical mechanics and Lagrangian dynamics, as well as educators looking to deepen their understanding of dependent coordinates in motion analysis.

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Homework Statement



I don't know why I'm having trouble here, but I want to show that, if we let [itex]t = t(\theta)[/itex] and [itex]q(t(\theta)) = q(\theta)[/itex] so that both are now dependent coordinates on the parameter [itex]\theta[/itex], then

[tex]L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\theta) = t'L(q,q'/t',t)[/tex]

where [itex]t' = \frac{dt}{d\theta}, q' = \frac{dq}{d\theta}[/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution



Writing [itex]L = \frac{m}{2} \dot{q}^2 - V(q)[/itex], we let [itex]\frac{d}{dt} \to \frac{d\theta}{dt}\frac{d}{d\theta}[/itex] and then,

[tex]L = \frac{m}{2} \frac{q'^2}{t'^2} - V(q)[/tex]

Which clearly doesn't agree with what I need to show... where am I going wrong here?
 
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A:We have $L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\theta)=\frac{\partial L}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial q'}\frac{\partial q'}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial t'}\frac{\partial t'}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta}$ By the chain rule, $\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=\frac{\partial q}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}=\frac{q'}{t'}$ and $\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}=t'$ Also, $\frac{\partial q'}{\partial \theta}=\frac{\partial q'}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial q'}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=\frac{q''}{t'}+\frac{q'}{t'}\frac{q'}{t'}=\frac{q''t'-q'^2}{t'^2}$And, $\frac{\partial t'}{\partial \theta}=\frac{\partial t'}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial t'}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=\frac{t''}{t'}+\frac{0}{t'}\frac{q'}{t'}=\frac{t''}{t'}$Finally, we compute the last partial derivative.$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta}=-\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=-\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{q'}{t'}$So, $L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\
 

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