Langrange's Mean Value Theorem question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a function f defined on the interval [-1,1] that satisfies two conditions: (a) there exists a point c in the open interval (-1,1) such that the derivative f'(c) equals 0, and (b) the function values f(a) and f(b) are not equal for any distinct points a and b in [-1,1]. The context involves Lagrange's Mean Value Theorem (LMVT) and its implications on the existence of such a function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of differentiability and continuity on the existence of the function. One participant suggests that if f were differentiable throughout (-1,1), it would lead to a contradiction based on LMVT. Others question the necessity of LMVT and explore the possibility of f being differentiable only at a single point c.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem. Some have offered insights into the assumptions regarding continuity and differentiability, while others are questioning the relevance of LMVT in this context. There is no explicit consensus on the existence of such a function, and participants are encouraged to share their thoughts without revealing solutions.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted ambiguity regarding the continuity and differentiability of the function f, as the original poster highlights that the problem does not specify these conditions. This has led to varied interpretations and assumptions among participants.

Ryuzaki
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Homework Statement



Find a function f on [-1,1] such that :-

(a) there exists c [itex]\in[/itex] (-1,1) such that f'(c) = 0 and
(b) f(a) [itex]\neq[/itex] f(b) for any a[itex]\neq[/itex] b [itex]\in[/itex] [-1,1]

Homework Equations



Lagrange's Mean Value Theorem (LMVT), which states that if f:[a,b]-->ℝ is a function which is continuous in [a,b] and differentiable in (a,b), there exists some c[itex]\in[/itex] (a,b) such that f'(c) = (f(b) - f(a))/(b-a).

The Attempt at a Solution



If f was said to be differentiable in (-1,1), then it's quite easy to prove that such a function cannot exist, using LMVT. But here, nothing is said about the continuity or differentiability of f in (-1,1). The function could just be differentiable at the point x = c.

I'm quite sure that such a function cannot exist. However, this is purely intuitive, and I'm unable to prove it. Can someone please hint on a proof, or an example if there's any?

Thank you.
 
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Ryuzaki said:
If f was said to be differentiable in (-1,1), then it's quite easy to prove that such a function cannot exist, using LMVT.
I don't see that. In fact, I don't see the relevance of LMVT here. Were you told to use it somehow? Unless I've misunderstood something, there's quite an easy (and differentiable) solution.
 
Thank you, haruspex for your reply. No, I wasn't told to use LMVT, but that was the only way I could think of.

Well, what I had in mind was assuming that such a function f exists, which is continuous in [-1,1] and differentiable in (-1,1), and f(a) not equals f(b), for any a not equals b, in [-1,1] (Sorry for my abstinence from symbols, I'm typing from my phone). Then by LMVT, there would exist some c such that

f'(c) = (f(1) - f(-1))/(1-(-1))

Now, if f'(c) were to be 0, then essentially f(-1) = f(1).

But we assumed that, f(a) not equals f(b), for any a not equals b, yet we got f(-1) = f(1). Hence, our assumption is wrong, and therefore such a function cannot exist.

But the above proof relies on the assumption that f is continuous in [-1,1] and differentiable in (-1,1). But this need not be the case. From the question, what I understand is that f could very well be differentiable ONLY at x = c.

Could you share your thoughts on this, haruspex? Please don't give out the solution, as I'd like to have the pleasure of solving it on my own. Thanks.
 
Ryuzaki said:
Thank you, haruspex for your reply. No, I wasn't told to use LMVT, but that was the only way I could think of.

Well, what I had in mind was assuming that such a function f exists, which is continuous in [-1,1] and differentiable in (-1,1), and f(a) not equals f(b), for any a not equals b, in [-1,1] (Sorry for my abstinence from symbols, I'm typing from my phone). Then by LMVT, there would exist some c such that

f'(c) = (f(1) - f(-1))/(1-(-1))

Now, if f'(c) were to be 0, then essentially f(-1) = f(1).
Sure, there exists some c s.t. f'(c) = (f(1) - f(-1))/(1-(-1)), but why should f'(c)=0 for that c? f could quite easily be 0 somewhere else.
Think of some point at which f' is zero. Now extend f left and right satisfying f(a)≠f(b).
 

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