Launching satellites using electromagnet power

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of launching satellites using electromagnet power, particularly through concepts like rail guns. Participants explore various technical challenges, theoretical considerations, and historical references related to this method of launch.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the practicality of using electromagnet power for satellite launches, citing the need for high speeds and the challenges posed by atmospheric resistance.
  • One participant suggests that a rail gun could theoretically launch a satellite if it could reach orbital speed, but emphasizes that atmospheric conditions would likely cause the satellite to break apart.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of using a vacuum containment system to mitigate thermal issues during launch, but acknowledges that emerging into dense atmosphere at high speeds presents significant challenges.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential damage to equipment and human safety due to the sudden acceleration at lift-off, drawing parallels to historical concepts of cannon-fired spacecraft.
  • There is a discussion about the concept of escape velocity, with some participants questioning whether achieving this velocity at the surface is necessary for escaping Earth's gravity without further acceleration.
  • One participant notes that while escape velocity is a standard measure, orbital velocity is actually less, and mentions that attempts have been made historically to use guns for launching objects into orbit.
  • A reference is made to Professor Eric Laithwaite and his work on linear motors and electromagnetic rails, suggesting historical interest in the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on the feasibility and challenges of launching satellites using electromagnet power. There is no consensus on the practicality of this method, with multiple competing ideas and unresolved questions remaining in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to atmospheric effects, the need for high altitudes for effective launches, and the unresolved nature of the engineering challenges associated with high-speed launches.

CM CHAMPAK
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Why can't we launch satellite by using electromagnet power?
 
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As with a rail gun.
The first question would be: How long is that rail gun?

Let's say that you only wanted to use the rail gun to get the rocket as far as a first stage booster would go - about Mach 12. The first problem you have is that Mach 12 is a big problem in dense air. So your gun would have to be miles high just to get the rocket into air thin enough for Mach 12 flight.
 
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CM CHAMPAK said:
Why can't we launch satellite by using electromagnet power?

The satellite needs to have a large speed to orbit the earth. Most of the accelerating to reach this speed has to be done at a high altitude where the atmosphere is very thin. A railgun that can accelerate something to orbital speed is possible, but the satellite would break up an never reach orbit because of the air resistance.
Finally, We don't have any technology to accelerate a satellite that is far away with electromagnetic forces.

If there was no atmosphere we could build a railgun at the Earth's surface, and launch a satellite to low Earth obit with only a small included rocket, to make the orbit of the satellite circular when it's at the right altitude.
 
Um, you could use such as a 'stage zero', using vacuum containment with a well-timed diaphragm at the muzzle, but then your launch emerges into 'dense' atmosphere at near-hypersonic speed.
Thermal Issues ensue...
Nearest analogy is probably the HARP project...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP
 
The sudden large acceleration at lift-off could also damage equipment and definitely be lethal to any people on board. The same problem as with the cannon-fired spacecraft that appeared in 19th century science fiction if I remember correctly.
 
As an addendum , do you always have to reach the standard escape velocity ?

The standard equation is
##v=\sqrt{2gr}##
where v is the escape velocity and r is the distance (radius) from the centre of mass of the earth

This works out ≅ 11 km s-1 at the Earth's surface.

Intuitively, if one ( or the vehicle ) could instantaneously achieve 11km s-1 at the surface , would it
of necessity escape the pull of the Earth's mass (gravity) if it did not undergo ANY further acceleration?

Similarly, if one had a hypothetical rocket that had an unlimited supply -internallyproduced- of thrust ,
then could that rocket continue into space / orbit without actually achieving the so-called ESCAPE VELOCITY?
 
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Janosh89 said:
Intuitively, if one ( or the vehicle ) could instantaneously achieve 11km s-1 at the surface , would it
of necessity escape the pull of the Earth's mass (gravity) if it did not undergo ANY further acceleration?
One assumes that you are not counting the Earth's gravity as a "further acceleration". Then yes, a 11 km/sec velocity at the surface in any direction yields a trajectory that will escape to infinity, barring any other acceleration. Typically, that other acceleration will be present either by smacking head-on into the Earth's surface (if you aim downward) or air resistance (if you aim upward).
Similarly, if one had a hypothetical rocket that had an unlimited supply -internallyproduced- of thrust ,
then could that rocket continue into space / orbit without actually achieving the so-called ESCAPE VELOCITY?
See https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...n-vehicle-escape-Earth's-gravity-well.954278/
 
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https://goo.gl/images/yDuYKT

Found this when Googling Professor Eric Laithwaite , inventor of the linear motor
[ ICU , London ] when NASA Scientists (2) visited his subsequent work on
electromagnetic rails at the University of Sussex ,Southern England
 
Janosh89 said:
As an addendum , do you always have to reach the standard escape velocity ?

Not that this changes the question much, but I thought I would mention that orbital velocity is less than escape velocity.

Also, firing a gun (ok, chemical rather than rail gun, but a similar problem) to reach orbit is not entirely science fiction. While nobody has ever fired anything into orbit, a few attempts and some progress have been made over the years. See the Wikipedia article on space guns. Mach 9 is more than a third of the way there in terms of speed, but, of course, the engineering problems are not linear with speed. Still, I certainly wouldn’t want to say it’s impossible.
 
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It was just an idea i thought and thanks for your suggestions

<< Post edited by a Mentor to remove all caps and text speak >>
 
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