russ_watters said:
It's your rhetoric we're analyzing here. You made the statement we're discussing: I'm posting facts and definitions. Creating a straw-man (in quotes no less!) that I never said doesn't change any of it.
Social liberals seek to reduce the amount of capitalism by incorporating elements of socialism. That's a fact/definition. If you want to call that "anti-capitalist", that's on you. I never said it and won't pretend to know what you actually mean by it. Again, what you are doing here is defining "socialism" as a point on a spectrum, but capitalism as a range. That's disingenuous at best. If you want to be consistent, make them both points and say that liberals and conservatives are neither capitalists nor socialists. That would be more accurate than saying they were capitalists but not socialists.
Again, social liberals incorporate aspects of socialism into their philosophy. If socialism was just a point, then we wouldn't be able to say that.
Saving it by watering it down with socialism is still watering it down with socialism.
C'mon, say it, don't dance around it: They both believe in capitalism, but they also both believe in some incorporation of socialism. Why are you so afraid to say it?
"afraid to say it" ... more propaganda.
I'm not afraid to say it, it's just wrong. You are using an incorrect definition of liberalism when you compare it so socialism. Liberalism is technically
independent of capitalism, but in the US, most liberals are
capitalist liberals. The democratic party was the first of the two parties in the US. When Repuplicans came around, they were the liberals (they were pro-state, anti-seccession, they wanted to free the slaves, so they wanted social reform). These ideas were independent of capitalism. Capitalism wasn't even an issue!
Princeton definition:
"Liberalism: a political orientation that favors social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than by revolution."
or from wiki:
"Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as capitalism (either regulated or not), constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free press, free and fair elections, human rights and the free exercise of religion.[3][4][5][6][7]"
or you could read a book:
http://mises.org/liberal/isec5.asp
You're trying to pit liberalism as something trying to move away from capitalism, which is because you have this incorrect association of liberalism with socialism that the republican party has been painting for the last decade. Of course, the association explicitly stated would be fair, because many liberals do practice socialist ideals in the last decade, but it's simply because the two aren't mutually exclusive. It's
not that they're necessarily inclusive of each other.