Levi-Civita Connection & Riemannian Geometry for GR

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Levi-Civita connection and its relationship to Riemannian geometry within the context of General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the implications of metric symmetry on the connection and the nature of metrics in different coordinate systems, raising questions about the definitions and properties of metrics in various geometrical frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the Levi-Civita connection is determined by the metric tensor being covariantly constant, which is unique and torsion-free under certain conditions.
  • Another participant claims that the metric is always symmetric, referencing the definition of a metric and the properties of the contraction of the metric tensor.
  • A question is raised about whether the symmetry of the metric holds true for all geometries, not just Riemannian.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the implications of a non-symmetric metric, particularly in relation to the commutativity of vector dot products.
  • One participant discusses the nature of inner products being symmetric by definition and emphasizes that coordinate systems merely express tensors without altering their fundamental properties.
  • Another participant speculates on the consequences of a non-symmetric metric, likening it to anti-commutative structures such as Grassmann variables, and questions the implications for the universe.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of symplectic structures, noting that while they are anti-commutative, they differ from metrics and are used in specific contexts like geometric Hamiltonian mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of metric symmetry and its implications across different geometries. While some assert the metric's symmetry is a fundamental property, others question its universality and explore the consequences of non-symmetric metrics. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of metric properties on coordinate choices and the potential for confusion regarding definitions and interpretations in different geometrical contexts. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions and interpretations that are not fully reconciled.

binbagsss
Messages
1,291
Reaction score
12
Conventional GR is based on the Levi-Civita connection.

From the fundamental theorem of Riemann geometry - that the metric tensor is covariantly constant, subject to the metric being symmetric, non-degenerate, and differential, and the connection associated is unique and torsion-free - the connection can be determined by the metric from a relativity simple formula.

BUT , doesn't whether the metric is symmetric or not, depend upon the choice of coordinates when specifying the metric. E.g- Schwarzschild metric given in spherical polar coordinates is diagonal, and so symmetric.
However, the extended Schwarzschild metric in Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates is not diagonal, contains a dudr term, but not a drdu term. Does this mean that for the metric in Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates , the connection can no longer be simply computed from the metric?

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The metric is always symmetric. This is in the definition of a metric.

When people write out the metric in the familiar ##ds^2=-dt^2+...## form, they are actually writing out the contraction ##ds^2=g_{ij}dx^i dx^j##. But since ##dx^idx^j=dx^jdx^i## the ##g_{ij}## and ##g_{ji}## terms just get added together so you don't see both terms, just the combination ##g_{ij}+g_{ji}=2g_{ij}##.
 
Matterwave said:
The metric is always symmetric. This is in the definition of a metric.
Is this true for any geometry and not just Riemannian?
 
binbagsss said:
Is this true for any geometry and not just Riemannian?

If the metric were not symmetric, then the dot product of two vectors would not be commutative.
 
Mathematically, inner products are symmetric by definition. In a coordinate system you are merely expressing the inner product ( in fact any tensor) in terms of the coordinates. You are not changing it in any way.
 
Nugatory said:
If the metric were not symmetric, then the dot product of two vectors would not be commutative.

It would be anti-commutative , like Grassmann variables...
But wouldn't that make a very weird universe?? It blows my mind to think that r \theta = - \theta r
 
ChrisVer said:
It would be anti-commutative , like Grassmann variables...
But wouldn't that make a very weird universe?? It blows my mind to think that r \theta = - \theta r

It wouldn't have to be "anti-commutative" unless it were totally anti-symmetric. A general tensor will have both symmetric and anti-symmetric parts. Usually the term "anti-commutative" means that variables anti-commute ##\{a,b\}=0##.

Anyways, there is a structure that IS anti-commutative that sometimes we use for manifolds, and that is called a symplectic structure. The basic quantity of interest there; however, is not called a metric, but the symplectic form. We use this for, e.g. geometric Hamiltonian mechanics.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 94 ·
4
Replies
94
Views
10K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
4K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
6K