LHCb observes 5 new particles (excited hadrons)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the recent observation of five new excited hadrons by the LHCb experiment, focusing on their implications for particle physics, particularly in the context of quantum chromodynamics (QCD) and baryon spectroscopy. Participants explore the significance of these findings and their potential connections to beyond the standard model (BSM) theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the observation of five new particles with significant decay peaks, suggesting they are excited states of the ##\Omega_c^0## baryon.
  • Another participant questions whether these excited hadrons can constrain BSM models or if their significance is limited to confirming existing theories.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the findings may enhance understanding of QCD at low energies, arguing that predictions for excited states are often inaccurate and do not necessarily indicate BSM physics.
  • One participant discusses the relevance of mass differences over absolute masses in understanding the effects of quark mass, suggesting that the LHCb should make detailed mass data public.
  • A participant raises concerns about the uncertainty in mass measurements, providing specific ranges for statistical and systematic uncertainties and questioning if a ~2% uncertainty is too large.
  • Another participant expresses admiration for LHCb's consistent discoveries, acknowledging that while not all findings are revolutionary, they contribute to the field.
  • One participant, working on the quark model for charmed baryons, anticipates that the new states will be negative parity states and expresses hope for positive results in their research.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the implications of the new particles, with some focusing on their potential to inform QCD and others questioning their relevance to BSM theories. There is no consensus on the significance of the uncertainty in mass measurements, as opinions vary on its impact on research outcomes.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the accuracy of predictions for excited states and the dependence on specific assumptions regarding mass measurements. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties in the field without resolving them.

Who May Find This Useful

Researchers and students interested in particle physics, quantum chromodynamics, baryon spectroscopy, and the implications of new particle discoveries in the context of theoretical models.

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Plain old standard model baryons, but 5 at the same time, and with crystal clear peaks in the decay to ##\Xi_c^+ K^-##. Each peak in the figure is a particle never seen before, and the significances of those peaks are about 20 sigma (10 sigma for the 5th one). A broad 6th state might hide around 3200 MeV.

Based on the quark content (charm strange strange), all those particles are excited ##\Omega_c^0## states. The ground state and one excited state have been known before.

News at the LHCb website
Publication at arXiv

OmegaFig2_s.png
 
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Can the excited hadrons be used to constrain BSM models or similar in any useful way, or is it mainly just dotting the i's?
 
It can help to understand QCD at low energies better. The predictions for excited states are often quite inaccurate. No BSM physics.

Here is an example for excited charmonium states. See the mass vs. JPC diagram: Yellow are predicted and discovered states, nearly all are below the threshold to decay to two charmed mesons. Grey are predicted but undiscovered states - most predicted states at higher energies have not been found. Red are discovered but unpredicted states which don't fit in the predicted pattern. And finally there are the tetraquarks in purple which also don't fit in.
 
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From a low-energy QCD perspective, this is very interesting: these particles are protons, but with every light quark replaced by a heavy one. That let's one separate effects due to quark mass and effects not due to quark mass. For this, the mass differences are more important than the absolute masses, and I would hope LHCb would make these public soon.
 
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You get a conservative uncertainty if you assume that both statistical and systematic uncertainty are uncorrelated, and treat the uncertainty from the ##\Xi## mass as fully correlated (because it is, obviously). The uncertainties on the masses are between 0.15 MeV and 0.9 MeV, the mass differences are between 15 and 120 MeV. A ~2% uncertainty on the mass differences with conservative assumptions. Is that too large?
 
interesting again... I envy LHCb a little (it always discovers something- of course not 100% revolutionary)...
 
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mfb said:
Is that too large?

I don't do that kind of physics, but those who do tell me that they want the errors as small as possible. How much can they do with a 2% error that they couldn't do with a 3% error? Hard to tell. That said, it should be relatively easy for LHCb to do this: instead of m1..m5 being the fit variables, fot m1, (m2-m1), (m3-m2), etc. and repropagate the systematics.
 
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it is really interesting discovery. I am doing the quark model for charmed baryon. it enriches the charmed baryon spectroscopy.
According model, we expect those states are negative parity states (L=1). I hope I can get a good result soon.
 
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