Looking for a name for a natural phenomenon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying a name for a natural phenomenon characterized by cyclical patterns of gradual buildup followed by sudden release. Participants explore various examples from nature, sociology, and physics, considering both energy-related and sociological contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the phenomenon involves the sudden release of accumulated potential energy, but emphasize that it is a continual process rather than a one-time event.
  • There is a discussion about whether the events can be classified as periodic, with some arguing that they cannot be periodic if they occur at varying intervals.
  • One participant proposes the term "Outbreaks" as a potential name, while others suggest "Sporadic Outbreaks" to reflect the non-constant nature of the occurrences.
  • Participants debate the appropriateness of the term "sporadic" versus "periodic," with some agreeing that "sporadic" is more fitting.
  • Examples such as sociological issues like sectarian wars and natural phenomena like the pressure cooker whistle are discussed to illustrate the cyclical nature of the phenomenon.
  • There is a suggestion to categorize the occurrences into random, deterministic, or chaotic types, with the acknowledgment that nothing in the universe is truly random.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the original question, indicating that the concept may be complex or unclear.
  • Corrections are made regarding the terminology used, specifically distinguishing between "causal" and "casual."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a definitive name for the phenomenon. Multiple competing views and suggestions remain, with ongoing debate about the terminology and classification of the events discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express limitations in their understanding of the mathematical concepts related to randomness, determinism, and chaos, which may affect their contributions to the discussion.

  • #31
Stavros Kiri said:
So that phenomenon will have different types ... and at least 3 categories.

Yes, most likely.

Stavros Kiri said:
You can't put all in one, I think.

You can't. True.
 
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  • #32
Ivan Samsonov said:
Yes.
You can't.
I agree. Not all terms and generalizations have a "uniquely defined 'one-common-property' " ...
There may be more properies, that give rise to the types and categories of the phenomenon.
 
  • #33
Frenemy90210 said:
Is there any name for such a phenomena ?

Wait, are you asking for a scientific name or a name that we could make up right now that suits the parameters?
 
  • #34
Ivan Samsonov said:
Thank you.
Right.
Unfortunately I do not have enough background in maths to completely understand random, deterministic or chaotic.
Another example of the pattern in question is "pressure cooker whistle". The whistle (a kind of steam release switch) sporadically is raised by steam pressure to release the steam, which leads to reducing the pressure, which leads to closing of the switch which leads to slow buildup of the pressure and the cycle continues. This pattern can be seen in the universe frequently.
 
  • #35
Ivan Samsonov said:
Thank you.
Right.
Unfortunately I do not have enough background in maths to completely understand random, deterministic or chaotic.
Another example of the pattern in question is "pressure cooker whistle". The whistle (a kind of steam release switch) sporadically is raised by steam pressure to release the steam, which leads to reducing the pressure, which leads to closing of the switch which leads to slow buildup of the pressure and the
Ivan Samsonov said:
Wait, are you asking for a scientific name or a name that we could make up right now that suits the parameters?

Not a scientific name. Just a general name that describes that pattern.
 
  • #36
Frenemy90210 said:
Not a scientific name. Just a general name that describes that pattern.

From the dictionary (if possible)?
 
  • #37
Ivan Samsonov said:
Naturally occurring sporadic casual discharges - even better?

That's it then?
 
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  • #38
Ivan Samsonov said:
That's it then?

I guess that's it. (Except "Causal" instead of "Casual" ;) ).

Thanks.
 
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  • #39
Frenemy90210 said:
I guess that's it. (Except "Causal" instead of "Casual" ;) ).

Thanks.
It was spelled correctly the first time.
 
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  • #40
Stavros Kiri said:
It was spelled correctly the first time.

Yes, it was.
 
  • #41
A. 'Casual' is a different thing (other than being a typo). Causal means 'it has causes', it obeys Causality (or the principle of causality), or [obeys] the laws of nature, or ~ it is "naturally occurring", as successfully added by you guys. But since typically and rigorously 'causal' and 'naturally occurring' is not exactly the same thing, I like the full title (name, term) as modulated by the discussion:
Stavros Kiri said:
Or "Sporadic Causal Discharges" is a broader or better one?
Ivan Samsonov said:
Naturally Occurring Sporadic Causal Discharges - even better?
But are they truly random?
Stavros Kiri said:
I think they can be divided into categories: random, deterministic or chaotic ...
or more, perhaps + combinations etc.
For these 3 terms etc. see my next post.

B. But here is another idea, based on
Frenemy90210 said:
What I was looking for is a process in which "slow accumulation of something over a period of time then sudden release of it and the process repeats".
Not all sporadic events have a gradual buildup of the causal elements that lead to outbreak.
How about "Causaly and Naturally repeated Sporadic Build-ups & Discharges" ?
(or all phenomena that have those properties)
But it's probably too long of a name. It describes it better and more accurate though than the previous one, doesn't it? Unless we find a shorter or more concise one ... , or suffice with the previous conclusion ... etc.; or anyone else more input, ideas or suggestions? ...
 
  • #42
Criticality , breakdown and system state bifurcation ?
 
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  • #43
Nidum said:
Criticality , breakdown and system state bifurcation ?
Or 'system saturation and discharges' ... (?)
 
  • #44
Frenemy90210 said:
Edit : Also note that phenomena does not apply to just energy, but also socialogical issues such as sectarian wars between two groups/. ex. Immediately after a war/riot, it is all peace. Then tensions start slowly building up and after some period, there is war once again; and the cycle continues.
Not necessarily, so your example of a sociological phenomenon doesn't fit the category you're trying to find a name for. Note that phenomenon is the singular form; phenomena is the plural form.
For example, in Europe, starting in the 16th Century there were wars between the Catholics and the newly-formed Protestant offshoot. These wars erupted periodically for several centuries, but then died out.
 
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  • #45
Mark44 said:
For example, in Europe, starting in the 16th Century there were wars between the Catholics and the newly-formed Protestant offshoot. These wars erupted periodically for several centuries, but then died out.
IMO, the repetitive cycle doesn't have to go forever. Even a few sporadic ones (cycles) should/could be in the category, I think.
As I said there would be different types and categories of the phenomenon (by the way, typo in your first spelling of 'phenomenon' - can fix). E.g. infinite cycled, finite, damping etc.
(besides random, deterministic or chaotic already mentioned ...)

(Also, e.g. a kettle once off the hook, or fire lowered would eventually stop ...)
 
  • #46
Doesn't this phenomenon generally fall under the science of chaos?

A dripping tap is a common example of an aperiodic, chaotic event.
Predator/prey population ratios is another example.
The output of the last iteration is a factor in the subsequent iteration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

chaos-img6.gif
 

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  • #47
DaveC426913 said:
Doesn't this phenomenon generally fall under the science of chaos?
Not always (read the thread)
 
  • #49
russ_watters said:
Why isn't "cycle" good enough?
He needs an outburst etc. (or better a build up and an outburst ... etc., repeating sporadically, for any reason)
(e.g. see posts #41 & 43)
 
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