Lorenz Transformation of Time: Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Lorentz transformation of time, specifically addressing how time measurements vary between different observers in relative motion. Participants explore the implications of moving clocks running slower and the underlying mechanics of time measurement in experiments like the Michelson-Morley experiment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Lorentz transformation indicates that time measurements differ between observers, questioning the validity of the statement that moving clocks run slower.
  • Others argue that the Lorentz transformation has been experimentally validated, suggesting that the focus should be on understanding how it can be true rather than dismissing it.
  • A participant clarifies that the Michelson-Morley experiment measured the difference in time between two arms rather than measuring time directly, emphasizing the role of interference fringes in this measurement.
  • One participant introduces the twin paradox to illustrate that while observers may perceive each other's clocks as running slower, this does not imply that both clocks are actually running slower in an absolute sense.
  • There is a discussion about the mechanics of how clocks function, particularly in relation to the distance traveled by signals in moving clocks, which affects the measurement of time.
  • Participants note the distinction between "apparent" and "real" time changes in relativity, suggesting that while both observers may see similar effects, there is an objective difference in time elapsed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of the Lorentz transformation and the implications of moving clocks. There is no consensus on whether the statement that moving clocks run slower can be accepted without further qualification.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include the reliance on specific definitions of time and measurement, as well as the unresolved complexities surrounding the twin paradox and the nature of time in relativity.

AhmedHesham
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For example, Lorenz transformation of time means
That measurement of time changes from one observer
to another. I have read that this means moving clocks
run slower. But this can't be true because Lorenz transformation of time depends on both of the seed
of the observer and the object he observes. How can
the clock depend on the speed of the object we observe?
 
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AhmedHesham said:
So how do we Measure time In Michelson Morley experiment?
The MMX did not exactly measure time. It measured the difference in time between the two arms. That was measured through the interference fringes.

My point with the reference above is that you shouldn’t state “it can’t be true”, because the Lorentz transform has been tested thoroughly. Instead, the question should be “how can it be true”.
 
Dale said:
The MMX did not exactly measure time. It measured the difference in time between the two arms. That was measured through the interference fringes.
OK,i am going to read more about this. Thank you
 
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AhmedHesham said:
For example, Lorenz transformation of time means
That measurement of time changes from one observer
to another. I have read that this means moving clocks
run slower. But this can't be true because Lorenz transformation of time depends on both of the seed
of the observer and the object he observes. How can
the clock depend on the speed of the object we observe?

Each person who views the other's reference frame clock will see the other clock run slower.
However, that doesn't mean both clocks are actually running slower than the other.
Read up on the twin paradox.

The fact is, a clock is a measurement of a cycle. Whether it be the number of times an electron has gone around an atom, or the number of vibrations that an a bunch of atoms have made. That's how clocks work.

But when an object "moves" in a straight line, and has a clock "pendulum" transverse to that motion; the distance the pendulum moves is longer than if the clock itself was not also traveling. The hypotenuse of a right triangle is always longer than either leg. So, moving objects have clocks that must "go" longer distances to measure a 'tick' of time. If the clock uses electromagnetic signals, anywhere, they travel with the speed of light; and therefore, take longer "time" to complete a cycle.

That's why Einstein talked about the twin paradox. His discussion was to answer exactly the objection you just raise. However, the solution is that one of the two observers come back with less time elapsed on their clock at the end of the experiment.

In relativity, there are both "apparent" and "real" time changes. They "look" the same for both observers, but there's an objective difference.
 

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